Barack Obama's latest speech

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by PLATO


I just love this one! If you don't support Obama then you are racist!

When did I say that?

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
IIRC, McCain once said that he would not send troops into Pakistan without Pakistani permission. Obama has interpreted this to mean that, even if the target were bin Ladin, McCain wouldn't send in troops. I doubt if this is really what McCain meant, but to my knowledge, he's never clarified it.

And this is what happens when we do things in Pakistan without their permission:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7396366.stm

Pakistani troops have fired shots into the air to stop US troops crossing into the South Waziristan region of Pakistan, local officials say.

US troops from the Chinooks then tried to cross the border. As they did so, Pakistani paramilitary soldiers at a checkpoint opened fire into the air and the US troops decided not to continue forward, local Pakistani officials say.

It is not a good idea to piss off a nuclear power. Just sayin'. I mean they've already given some technology to other states.

[DaShi]

Oh sure, the BBC talks about the Chinooks and no one says anything. I do and I get UR and Tingkai up my ass!

[Colon™]

This election, you either be sexist or racist. It's a no win situation.

[Patroklos]

And they told you the same thing about Kerry and you believed it. Thats how your being manipulated, if your always easily convinced that the alternatives are worse then present mess then theirs no incentive for the present leadership to actually fix its mess, instead all effort is put into smearing the alternatives.

In case you haven't noticed, there is no incumbant this election, so there is no way to vote for the present leadership.

I hope you realize how ironic your statment above is.

[Jon Miller]

Just because the face has changed, doesn't mean that the body has. Most of the people working with McCain also worked in some way with the Republicans for the last 8 years.

JM

[Patroklos]

Just because the face has changed, doesn't mean that the body has. Most of the people working with McCain also worked in some way with the Republicans for the last 8 years.

Most? Really? Sure about that?

You are to smart to be spouting off McBush talking points Jon. Which of the cabinet positions will be the same as the ones currently held by the Bush admiistration?

I guess you will be voting for Republican congressional candidates then, right?

[Impaler[WrG]]

I just love this one! If you don't support Obama then you are racist!

As much as I disagree with PLATO he right to call Jhon Miller for that comment on racism, PLATO isn't voting for Obama because of a slew of other logical fallacies he believes, racism is probably not one of them.

McCain is clearly the devil. He certainly has never had a good or workable idea in his entire 30 year career. His knowledge and experience on how government works would lead us further into the kind of mess we are in now. It is obvious that we need inexperienced new bood in office. Someone who will not be held back by the status quo on how to get things done...Someone who has only just now met foriegn leaders and has no relationships with them to let preconcieved ideas and power structures to get in the way...someone who knows how to vastly increase services while decreasing taxes and balancing budgets. Give us Obama!

Indeed McCain has supported the disastrous Bush policies the last 8 years, though I like some of the things McCain supported in the past (Immigration reform, Campaign Finance reform) but he's clearly indicated hes going to give us more of the same. McCain has learned NOTHING from his experiences in Government and apparently nothing in that Box the Vietcong kept him in either as he things we should have doubled down and 'won' that war.

I'm unsatisfied with the Status quo and will indeed be replacing it with fresh blood and you can't scare we away from it by claiming Obama is some kind of neophyte, he's clearly of presidential caliber and intellect and has a plan. I'll admit everything new is inherently a risk but we KNOW the present party leadership is failing and thats what matters.

[Jon Miller]

My comment on racism wasn't directed against Plato, but rather for quite a number of people who might have voted for another democratic candidate but won't because of racist reasons.

America is a lot more racist than many people realize.

JM

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Ramo
Uh, no, it was not a total absolution. The Senate Ethics Cmte said that McCain exercised "poor judgment."

And if investigations are the standard, Obama isn't tainted at all.

That is because the other 3 were Demo. and the commities was made of more Demo than Rep., so they slap McCain and other Rep. to cover up the 3 Demo who did have dirt on their hands.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by MrFun



So working-class Americans are dumb enough to believe that a multi-millionaire oil tycoon like George W. Bush is your average everday joe just like themselves?

Some one said a year or 2 ago, that Bush was worth about 13 to 15 million. In the Rich class, that toward the bottom.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Joseph
Some one said a year or 2 ago, that Bush was worth about 13 to 15 million. In the Rich class, that toward the bottom.

In America....

But it's still nowhere near the average Joe. It's really funny how all the politicians who want to succeed in the US need to have large personal wealth, overhear you don't really need that (though it helps).


I think modern democracy on a large scale is nothing but plutocracy and that only smaller democracies are real democracies. I think a population of around 2-5 million is appropriate for modern tech.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think modern democracy on a large scale is nothing but plutocracy and that only smaller democracies are real democracies. I think a population of around 2-5 million is appropriate for modern tech.

Agreed, though their would be certain large city-states that exceed that size and you would need some kind of U.N. like structure that intervenes in a crisis and enforces a ban on aggressive war (effectively the job its supposed to do now but can't because the nation-states are so darn powerful and the security council structure allows any one of them to halt everything).

[rah]

For those that are still blinded by the purity of "THE ONE"

He is still a Chicago Politician. Anyone that doubts that should read this article in the Chicago Tribune today.
Granted the writer is biased, but it DOESN"T CHANGE THE FACTS involved.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-oped0916byrnesep16,0,188873.story

For those of you who still cling to the fantasy that Barack Obama is "about change," you should note how he, or his minions, want nothing to do with reforming politics in Illinois, perhaps the most corrupt state in the Union.

"Throughout his political career, Barack Obama has fought for open and honest government," proclaims his campaign Web site. Apparently, no longer. When the Democratic presidential candidate—now his party's industrial-strength voice for our deliverance from political corruption everywhere—was asked by a reformer if he would help get his political mentor back home to get off the dime and move the most minimal of state ethics legislation toward passage, the Obama campaign sent word back that amounted to a "no."

State Sen. Emil Jones (D-Chicago) is the Chicago machine politician who might have been most instrumental in jump-starting Obama's political career. Now, as Illinois Senate president, Jones is the one sitting on the reform legislation, refusing to call it for an expected favorable vote before it officially dies of neglect.

Jones is the pal of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, no friend of reform, who used his amendatory veto power to change the legislation after it passed both houses so that Jones would get another chance to kill it.



If all that's confusing, welcome to Illinois politics, where intricacy is the best camouflage for chicanery. Suffice to say, neither Blagojevich nor Jones is working for reform.

So, along comes Cindi Canary, director of the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform, thinking that now might be a good time for Obama to parlay his friendship with Jones to do a good deed: Won't you intervene with Jones and try to get him to call the Senate back into session to get this law passed? "[T]his is a place [Obama] could come in and quickly clean up some of the damage and serve his state," she told the Chicago Sun-Times. After all, her group and Obama worked together during those halcyon days when he actually supported reform in Illinois, so maybe he'll be receptive to a plea to intervene on behalf of Illinois folks who have been getting gouged for years by the likes of Jones. "A 30-second phone call to the Illinois Senate president could yield huge dividends to this state," she said.

In response, Obama's campaign issued an oozy statement reaffirming Obama's alleged commitment to reform, while getting no more specific than urging everyone to get together and love one another right now. What Canary was asking Obama for wasn't all that much. Maybe a 30-second phone call to back up his usual pap of, "Look, ah, I've, ah, always been for, ah, reform." For most people, the reform that we're talking about is so basic that they might ask, "You mean it's not illegal already?"

The legislation would make illegal the widespread abuse called pay-to-play politics, by which companies doing business with the state contribute to the state official in charge of ladling out contracts. The new law wouldn't let you do it if you have more than $50,000 in state contracts, which, even at that, leaves open a nice loophole. In Illinois, this is a huge leap forward from how things are done. Blagojevich, who has reaped bundles of cash from state contractors, could be one of the pols most jolted by the prohibition. That explains why he rewrote the legislation in a way that would make it ineffective and why the House overwhelmingly rejected his changes.

Jones now is the only one standing in the way of the reform, with Obama abetting.

Here's another example of how Obama has revealed himself to be a creature of the Chicago machine. Who can forget his silence when he could have affirmed his reformer credentials by endorsing Democrat Forrest Claypool over machine creature Todd Stroger as Cook County Board president? When things got too hot, Obama severed his ties from his racially inflammatory pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. That's not too hard; you can always find another pastor.

But betraying your political godfather(s) in Chicago and Illinois is an entirely different matter. Especially if you lose the presidential election and return to being just another senator from Illinois. Cutting his ties with the corrupt Chicago machine is one bridge you will not see Obama burn. Not now, not ever.

Agent of change, my foot.

He refuses to buck the machine in Illinois. Of course I'm not surprised. Not backing Claypool over the most politically connected politician in chicago for county board president. Cook county in now the highest taxed county in the country while Obama stood on the sidelines.

He is not the one we've been waiting for. He's the one that's been there all along with his hand in your pocket.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by rah

He is not the one we've been waiting for. He's the one that's been there all along with his hand in your pocket.

Say it ain't so!

I want my free stuff that the Wall Street Fat Cat is going to have to pay for!