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  • #271
    Originally posted by PLATO
    Before you go bashing Bush to much, you might want to look at the legislation that the administration proposed in 2005 to reign in Fannie and Freddie...Dems shot it down.
    Was I unclear? I said the Bush administration and Congress. And specifically their lack of (real) action in the last year.

    Bush proposed regulation of F&F in 2003, McCain in 2005, and I'm not sure how Dems alone could have shot that down as Reps controlled both houses. Of course just saying we should create an institution to oversee F&F doesn't mean that oversight would have been better/worse than the oversight congress was in charge of already. (Though it is hard to see it as being worse.)

    In any case, a single bill doesn't absolve anyone when it's a whole myriad of problems with our economy, most of which have been ignored. (And which are still being ignored if we are to believe, "the fundamentals of our economy are strong".)

    Comment

    • #272
      The government purchases 79.9 percent of the company in question. It can’t be more than that, because if it goes over the magical number of 80 percent, the company’s debts are then required to be consolidated onto the federal government’s balance sheet. Keeping it at 79.9 percent allows the government to maintain the fiction that it is still not responsible for the company’s solvency.
      From the NYT.

      I think that's why AIG wasn't fully nationalized.
      "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
      -Joan Robinson

      Comment

      • #273
        I'm hearing mixed reports.

        Some say the U.S. has taken over 79.9% control.
        Others say that 79.9% was pledged as collateral for the loan.

        Hmmm. A multibillion dollar deal. No Congressional approval. And no one knows what's going on.

        Comment

        • #274
          Originally posted by Aeson


          Was I unclear? I said the Bush administration and Congress. And specifically their lack of (real) action in the last year.
          Sorry Aeson. No you were not unclear...just my poor reading skills while at work.

          The rest of your points are well taken as well.
          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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          • #275
            Nancy Pelosi:

            An 85-billion-dollar loan is a staggering sum and is just too enormous for the American people to bear the risk... Congress will demand answers to prevent this from happening again.


            I think we are okay on this one Nancy. AIG has plenty of assets to cover any risk on this one. Where were you when they committed to $100 billion with Freddie and Fannie? The assets there are much more questionable.

            Pelosi is an idiot. I simply cannot comprehend how little she understands about our financial system.
            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

            Comment

            • #276
              Originally posted by PLATO
              Nancy Pelosi:

              An 85-billion-dollar loan is a staggering sum and is just too enormous for the American people to bear the risk... Congress will demand answers to prevent this from happening again.


              I think we are okay on this one Nancy. AIG has plenty of assets to cover any risk on this one. Where were you when they committed to $100 billion with Freddie and Fannie? The assets there are much more questionable.

              Pelosi is an idiot. I simply cannot comprehend how little she understands about our financial system.
              With AIG paying LIBOR + 8 for a bridge loan, that means they'll be paying ~$95 billion back to the treasury if my math is correct. That coupled with the feds' 79% equity, could mean that this will be one of the greatest 'train robberies' in government history
              Last edited by Timexwatch; September 17, 2008, 16:32.
              If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.

              Comment

              • #277
                Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
                forget the cat and buy gold, instead of bed stuffed with cash that mice (ignored by unlucky owners of todays catbiscuit only cats) can destroy, you can build yourself a table with the bars, and it will always be worth something, and in this case likely more than the treasuries until the storm goes by

                Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
                http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jND4r3B-VBZu2Ogg2_yzjYnPIP8gD938JA000


                Gold's huge rally — prices shot up over 8 percent — came as the government moved overnight to rescue troubled insurer American International Group Inc. with an $85 million bailout loan. The Federal Reserve stepped in after AIG, teetering on collapse from losses tied to the subprime crisis and the credit crisis, failed to find adequate capital in the private sector.
                My great-grandfather had the foresight to leave me a 1/2 oz Kruggerand coin, so at least I'll be left with something after all this blows over.

                [edit] Just noticed my avatar (courtesy of Dan) is getting oddly fitting.
                DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                • #278
                  Morgan Stanley's stock is crashing after they posted earnings that beat expectations are were only down 3% vs. same quarter last year despite the turmoil.
                  "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                  -Joan Robinson

                  Comment

                  • #279
                    Down about 4.7% on the S&P 500. Still not quite capitulation, but this is pretty big movement.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #280
                      Originally posted by Victor Galis
                      Morgan Stanley's stock is crashing after they posted earnings that beat expectations are were only down 3% vs. same quarter last year despite the turmoil.
                      Correct me if I'm wrong but none of the companies went down because of insolvency, rather because of liquidity issues.
                      DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

                      Comment

                      • #281
                        Wachovia is reportedly discussing a merger with Morgan Stanley. Seems like a good match: Morgan Stanley needs a stable deposits base and Wachovia a strong balance sheet.
                        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

                        Comment

                        • #282
                          Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
                          [edit] Just noticed my avatar (courtesy of Dan) is getting oddly fitting.
                          Interestingly, GOOG is weathering the storm rather well.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                          Comment

                          • #283
                            Taking a step back and thinking about things, this market is down only 26%. Has plenty of room to plunge.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                            Comment

                            • #284
                              FXI, on the other hand, is down 58%. I'm thinking about buying. What say you?
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                              Comment

                              • #285
                                Originally posted by DanS
                                Interestingly, GOOG is weathering the storm rather well.
                                Optimism is riding high in the prospect of the soon-to-be-presented Google microwave oven (with small unintrusive banners next to the timer).
                                DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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