Czechs expect more Georgia-type crises from Russia

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You have a point about NATO aggression in the Balkans but Afghanistan was about collective defense.

What DD said.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Vanguard


Perhaps. But I don't recall NATO starting any fights with anyone.



If we give NATO membership to Georgia, then we will have to do this. So why do we want to give them NATO membership? The purpose of allying with people is to increase your own defense. Not to greatly increase the chance of nuclear war.

Allying with Georgia does not increase our defenses. So why do it?

Very few good reasons to do it and some really big bad reasons why not. The good reasons are 1) There's democracy in Georgia and we're for that. 2) There's an oil pipeline and strategic oil port there that cuts the Russian monopoly on oil to the west. This cuts the Russian leverage with the Germans and French. This is also why the Russians invaded.

The bad reason, well what I mentioned, having to counterattack Russia. Very bad.

Still, if history teaches anything its that politicos don't need good reasons to do stupid things. We will have Georgia in NATO, for better or for worse, till death...well you get the idea.

[chequita guevara]

Imperialist running dog.

[Arrian]

What DD said.

And of course said "aggression in the Balkans" was used as justification by Putin and Co. for their Georgian adventure. As a side note, one has to wonder how the precedent of Iraq will be used in the future.

...

As for Czechs fearing shenanigans from Russia, I'm not surprised. It makes sense. I too would expect some more of this sort of thing. One hopes it's handled better in the future than the Georgian thing was handled (obviously our boy over there didn't get the right message, or get it loud & clear enough).

-Arrian

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Imperialist running dog.

"pinko cosmopolitan hippie"

[Zkribbler]

Czechs expect more Georgia-type crises from Russia

I've been thinking about this.

Right now, Russian gets to strut. It beat the crap out of one of its pesky neighbors. It even stole some American military equipment. And we Yanks can't retaliate militarily because we're engaged in our stupid Iraqi war. So, on the surface of things, they have bragging rights.

But the Russians are savvy guys. They see they're the only ones who have recognized their two newly "liberated" nations. They see that Georgia, the rest of the Caucauses, the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine have all scurried closer to the West. They see they've been pretty univerally condemned. They see that they've isolated themselves politically.

In other words, they don't have too much to show for their efforts, and they've paid a lot.

I'll bet they're smart enough not to try anything like that again. They'll simply declare victory and sit tight.

[Vanguard]

NATO did not start a fight in the Balkans. The fight was already going. NATO intervened to prevent it from becoming worse.

It is not the same thing, whatever your opinion about Kosovo.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Vanguard
NATO did not start a fight in the Balkans. The fight was already going. NATO intervened to prevent it from becoming worse.

It is not the same thing, whatever your opinion about Kosovo.

Personally, I think NATO did right in both Bosnia and in Afghanistan. But in neither case was it attacked. It chose to attack, albeit for good reason.

[Lancer]

Re: Czechs expect more Georgia-type crises from Russia

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I've been thinking about this.

Right now, Russian gets to strut. It beat the crap out of one of its pesky neighbors. It even stole some American military equipment. And we Yanks can't retaliate militarily because we're engaged in our stupid Iraqi war. So, on the surface of things, they have bragging rights.

But the Russians are savvy guys. They see they're the only ones who have recognized their two newly "liberated" nations. They see that Georgia, the rest of the Caucauses, the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine have all scurried closer to the West. They see they've been pretty univerally condemned. They see that they've isolated themselves politically.

In other words, they don't have too much to show for their efforts, and they've paid a lot.

I'll bet they're smart enough not to try anything like that again. They'll simply declare victory and sit tight.

Trouble is, where they are sitting tight is IN Georgia. That shows that all that political stuff you mentioned means squat to them. Strength and and the resolve to use it is all the Russians respect. Right now we have one division in europe, not enough.

[Zkribbler]

Re: Re: Czechs expect more Georgia-type crises from Russia

Originally posted by Lancer
Trouble is, where they are sitting tight is IN Georgia.

No problemo. After Georgia becomes a NATO member, it simply permits NATO to designate those areas as "Bombing Ranges." The Russians can't complaint because they swear they've pulled completely out.

[Lancer]

Nah, we round em up and swap them for those 4 humvees.

[Zkribbler]

Ah shucks! I wanted to grab the cars from the Russian embassies in Washington D.C. and the U.N. and auction them off to pay for the hummers.

[Lancer]

Now now Zkrib, we're not Russians.

[onodera]

Lancer, you do understand that by chest-pounding and surrounding us with military divisions you will lose whatever respect you still have among the general population, don't you? No one will even have to switch on the propaganda machine. "We're going to beat you into submission" is something the Russians react very strongly against.
And we're not going to step down either. We've been doing that for 20 years, and a lot of people feel it's time to stop, dig our heels in and defend our interests in the countries that used to be parts of ours.

[Lancer]

You can not invade a soveriegn democratic nation and expect to get away with it on the basis of "We've been doing that for 20 years, and a lot of people feel it's time to stop, dig our heels in and defend our interests in the countries that used to be parts of ours." Well poo poo. Cry me a river.

Also, it is reaction to Russia's past occupations that the nations around you seek safety in NATO, and wisely so. That has been underlined by the invasion of Georgia. Call it what you will, the rest of the free world sees it differently.

So, you make for your own isalation, you can thank Putin for that. All those military forces surrounding you are meant to keep you within your borders and promote the safety of democratic nations who live in fear of more Russian invasions. You say that you will not back down but in fact, you must. Russia simply cannot get away with this behavior in the world today. In the coming months and years the destiny Russia has called down upon itself will become apparent even to Russians.

Oh, by the way, I don't chest pound.