It's war. Part II

[Dinner]

Precision guided munitions (I.E. smart bombs) and MLRS are basically dumb rocket artillery which is a very clumsy weapon designed to simply drop large numbers of bombs over a wide area. MLRS won't hit anything with precision but the former USSR used to mass huge numbers of them together and use them to level everything in wide corridor.

[Serb]

Originally posted by PLATO


I have a couple of problems with this actually. I have read reports of South Ossetians operating armoured vehicles...did they learn that over the weekend? Who trained them if it wasn't the Russians?

Soviets did.
Those tanks were there from the collapse of the USSR. Have you seen them? It's mostly an obsolete T-55s from old Soviet warehouses. Russia didn't supply SO with modern weaponry as far as I know. Feel free to prove me wrong. I just don't know was it forbiden or not to supply them, but even so (hypotetically) I see no problem with that since USA trained and equiped Georgia with modern weaponry all those years openly.

Secondly, I have nothing but sadness for what the South Ossetians went through and what they are going through now. Certainly one can see how they would want to start a conflict leading to independence or "absorbtion" into the Russian Empire...uhhh...Federation as long as they were promised Russian support.

A tiny 70K people who went through a nighmare of Georgian invasion just 17 years wanted to repeat that nightmare once again? Don't make me laugh. After the cease-fire they are de-facto independednt. The fact that they weren't internationally recognized as independent state didn't prevent them from enjoing a full and peacefull life. They just rebuild their country from the previous war and healed their mental wounds. What makes you think they wanted to risk the devastation of their country (and their country is devastated now and they perfectly understood it would be in case of another war vs. Georgia, 'cause they are hopelessly outnumbered) to ... wait a second... what for? You think they thought they could march to Tbilisi and force Saak to capitulate and recognize them? What makes you so sure they knew Russia will help them if they commite an insane, suicide aggression vs. Georgia? Russia would never aid them in case if they were the aggressors. Anyhow, in any case that mean devastation of their country, thousands of KIA and very likely defeat if they are on their own. And it's such a sacrifice for a hypotetical posibility (pretty tiny) to win their independence through war with. They just didn't need that 'cause they already lived like independent people and sooner or later Georgia would have to realize that they have no chance to make SO be a part of Georgia. Sure they want to be recognized as sovereign state, but a pre-war staus quo was ok for them. Georgia on the other hand was quite unhappy about the status qoe, 'cause the far the things remained unchanged the greater the probability SO will be de-juro sovereign. It was Hitlershvili who promised his voters he will bring SO and Abkhazia into Georgia by all means necessary. He was the only one who wanted this war, nobody else.

Clearly the Russians had this operation planned as evidenced by the war footing their troops were on before the Georgian actions and the near instantaneous response of their troops.
I hardly think the Russians are not culpable here.

Hell, we warned the west in UN many times that Hitlershvili is preparing for an agression. Nobody listenend to us. Sure we saw that he is going to invade and solve this issue by military means. And we have intel, so our troops were on high alert.
We were ready for this scenario, but that doesn't mean we are responsible for Saak's decision to attack.

Now...that being said, I like the South Ossetian's claim for independence. It makes a lot of sense. This should have been handled through negotiations. I wonder, if the Russians are really so concerned about an independent Ossetia, if they ever offered to through in North Ossetia for the new country. Oh! Of course not...that is their soverign territory.

Who said we want to annex SO? We will not protest if SO will be independent state and I bet be the first to recognize them. I don't know where you get the idea we are dreaming about this tiny piece of land. They can be an independent state and enjoy open borders, same economic space, same currency (they use our roubles as their currency), etc with Russia. That's how it was before the Georgian invasion. Basically they don't need to a part of Russia de-juro to be a part of Russia de-facto.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
This must be the first time Russia won a war during my lifetime

Just how old are you then? Eight?

[Serb]

Originally posted by PLATO
Bush anyone?

fas·cism Audio Help /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fash-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Corrected.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


None of these are, but Serb is using "fascist" interchangeably with, I don't know, "jerk" or "douchebag". Silly.

Bullsh!t. You call me fascist. I call you nazi.

[Lancer]

Serb, what about this new president of yours, is he real or a puppet of Putin?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


Grozny was largely MLRS'ed.

Bullsh!t.
We never commited a surprise bombardment of the city at night while civilians were sleeping. We did storm Grozny but first let civilians to quit the city.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Solver
PGM = precision guided missile

Precision Guided Munitions, not missile.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Precision guided munitions (I.E. smart bombs) and MLRS are basically dumb rocket artillery which is a very clumsy weapon designed to simply drop large numbers of bombs over a wide area. MLRS won't hit anything with precision but the former USSR used to mass huge numbers of them together and use them to level everything in wide corridor.

Don't tell me you never used such toys
MLRS are ok as a weapon, but it's not ok to use such weapon to kill civilians.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Lancer
Serb, what about this new president of yours, is he real or a puppet of Putin?

He is pretty real, if you ask me.
Though they work as one team, I guess. Like two galley-slaves (c). on one galley.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Serb


Just how old are you then? Eight?

Turned 40 the other day.

And don't tell me you won Afghanistan where you pulled out after a long grind, or Chetchnia (spelling?), where the shooting hasn't stopped yet.

Russia has learned their lessons on how to "win a war". Here's the concept:

1) Pick a fight with someone you can beat

2) Use proxy rebels to provoke the other side into attacking your own troops, so that you can claim to be "the good guys".

3) Attack big time and beat the opposition in a few days

4) Pull out before occupation, and avoid the long grinding partisan war that you would be bound to lose anyway.

5) Call it a day

[Serb]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


Turned 40 the other day.

And don't tell me you won Afghanistan where you pulled out after a long grind, or Chetchnia (spelling?), where the shooting hasn't stopped yet.

Aha, in your dreams.

Russia has learned their lessons on how to "win a war". Here's the concept:

Blah

blah

blah

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


Turned 40 the other day.

And don't tell me you won Afghanistan where you pulled out after a long grind, or Chetchnia (spelling?), where the shooting hasn't stopped yet.

Russia has learned their lessons on how to "win a war". Here's the concept:

1) Pick a fight with someone you can beat

2) Use proxy rebels to provoke the other side into attacking your own troops, so that you can claim to be "the good guys".

3) Attack big time and beat the opposition in a few days

4) Pull out before occupation, and avoid the long grinding partisan war that you would be bound to lose anyway.

5) Call it a day

Word.

Tell us then Serb, what wars you have won exactly recently?

[Serb]

And how many wars do you thing we fought recently?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
And how many wars do you thing we fought recently?

3 going on atm IIRC.