Will Georgia turn into a Moscow satellite?

[GePap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

In 2006, protests broke out on the peninsula after U.S. Marines[24] arrived to the Crimean city of Feodosiya to take part in the Sea Breeze 2006 Ukraine-NATO military exercise. Protesters greeted the marines with barricades and slogans bearing "Occupiers go home!", and a couple days later, the Crimean parliament declared Crimea a "NATO-free territory". After several days of protest, the U.S. Marines withdrew from the peninsula.[25]

Unless Crimean opinion has shifted significantly, the idea of NATO having any base in Sevastapol could be highly unlikely.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Gepap, talking above his paygrade again

not really, since when the statement was made, it was true.

Or are you temporarily challenged?

[Lancer]

If the Ukrainian government wants a NATO base there, you think a few buttheads carrying signs is going to make a difference? Besides, I used to be on a NATO base, they got signs of their own. 'KEEP OUT'.

[Lancer]

There's also guys there with guns next to the sign to assist people who can't read. Little service we provide.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lancer
If the Ukrainian government wants a NATO base there, you think a few buttheads carrying signs is going to make a difference?

Yes, because those "buttheads", who happen to govern Crimea, which under the Ukrainian Constitution is autonomous, might decide not to be part of Ukraine anymore if a government were to try to force them to accept something they didn't want.

[Lancer]

Well, that's different then. In that case we would use the experience gained airing out South Ossetian seperatists (Russians) to help the Ukrainians, then set up the NATO base.

[Patroklos]

not really, since when the statement was made, it was true.

I suppose I should have included the whole sentence, because Turkey was not in a position to veto the McFaul's transit as you said. That is exaclty why the small McFaul and not the much larger Mount Whitney made the delivery.

[Lancer]

Actually I'm trolling you GePap, sorry. We don't need that port, we have other choices.

[Patroklos]

Romania and Bulgaria would be happy to see a few billion in NATO funds spend in their territory.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


I suppose I should have included the whole sentence, because Turkey was not in a position to veto the McFaul's transit as you said. That is exaclty why the small McFaul and not the much larger Mount Whitney made the delivery.

The McFaul had already gotten Turkish approval to go into the Black Sea before, for the excercises it has previously carried out. So it wasn;t an issue of Turkey not having that right, which they do have, but that the McFaul already had been given permission by Turkey to cross the straights.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/50478.html

The arrival of the ships comes after Turkey, which by treaty controls access to the Black Sea, turned down a Bush administration request. Turkey, however, had already granted the McFaul permission to enter the Black Sea for a training mission

Get your facts straight.

[PLATO]

Looks like the Turks are being very careful here. I haven't seen an official Turkish response to the war and I think it would be very meaningful. Has anyone seen one?

[Patroklos]

As the article said, our sailors will only be in theater if Turkey allows them, and even then, that is weeks away.

Whats the deal Gepap, you said it would be weeks! I though Turkey had to allow them?

The McFaul had already gotten Turkish approval to go into the Black Sea before, for the excercises it has previously carried out. So it wasn;t an issue of Turkey not having that right, which they do have, but that the McFaul already had been given permission by Turkey to cross the straights.

I am glad you finally decided to do your homework

So you were wrong, the US DID hav access to the Black Sea when you said it didn't, and Turkey DOESN'T have the right to veto McFaul's access, revoking permission is a wholly different thing (which they really can't do).

Get your facts straight.

I am not sure why you think you are even attempting to argue with me about this. Its my OWN DAMN SHIP GEPAP, I have been talking on the phone/emailing (even facebooking) with my old crew onboard every day for weeks. You were wrong, accept it and move on.

[GePap]

Wow, I didn't think that the US would stuff some boxes in a destroyer and send it back on a completely different mission once the Turks has slapped down their other requests... what a "terrible" mistake on my part.

As someone who didn't seem to even know about the Montreux Convention until I just posted that article, you really have no ground to stand on, Guilligan.

[Patroklos]

The only one who seemed to have a misunderstanding of Turkey's options as far as restricting access to the Black Sea is you, given your comments on the 15th.

I am sorry I wasn't there to straighten you out earlier, especially given your authoritative tone back then. How about next time you let people with actually knowledge comment, you can reach me via PM any time

[GePap]

Originally posted by PLATO
Looks like the Turks are being very careful here. I haven't seen an official Turkish response to the war and I think it would be very meaningful. Has anyone seen one?

If you look online, there aren't many Turkish sites in English that have much on this issue, and a lot just post AP news articles.