Will Georgia turn into a Moscow satellite?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


10 years ago, sure. Now the Black sea fleet has one cruiser and 3 destroyers.

With the support of the Turks, and the Ukrainians, I don't think the Americans have anything to fear from the Russians. Heck, what's your primary port, Azov? If the Americans are operating out of Sevastopol, then I'm not sure what they have to be worried about.

You don't get it. We don't need big ships to destroy your fleet in the Black Sea. For that we have enough anti-ship missiles and aircrafts.
Besides your info about the Black Sea fleet is a bit incorrect. You forgot about submarines. And if you redeploy your carriers there, then what prevent us from doing the same? We'll just bring more ships there (attack submarines). Anyhow, it's pretty bad place for a big naval battle for a side who has aircarriers. Your carriers can be sunk, while our carrier is unsinkable coast of the Black sea.

Western Ukrainians aren't even Ukrainians per se, and have much more in common with the Hungarians.

Have you factored them into your calculations?

Yep.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Darius871


I know that; obviously I was asking for which and by whom, i.e. links.

Found within a minute in google:

A recent public opinion poll on the issue, conducted by the Kyiv-based Sofia think-tank from May 7 to 14, showed that only 21.4 percent of Ukrainians are inclined to support NATO membership, and 53 percent of those polled approved of the April failure to secure a MAP. The poll identified the main reasons for the negative attitude to NATO membership. Most Ukrainians fear that this would spoil relations with Russia (74 percent of those polled), force them to take part in US-led wars (67 percent), exacerbate tension in society (60 percent), prompt more spending on defense (58 percent), and make Ukraine a target for terrorists (58 percent).

http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373134

[SlowwHand]

The Russians are liars. "We're leaving now", and then don't. That's not to say ALL Russian natives are liars, but their government has lied. Either the "president" is a liar, or a puppet who got his strings yanked. You cry about Bush? At least Bush has said what he thought, regarding his "Axis of Evil" and hasn't crabbed over it.
He said we were going to Iraq. Doubtless, he hadn't a clue that Iraq would take so liong to take charge of their own interests. They're still ambiguous over a timetable.
Russia just flat out lied.

[Serb]

WTF? When Medvedev said that today or tommorow all Russian troops will be withdrawn?
Sarkozi now in Tbilisi and Sukashvili corected terms of cease-fire treaty. The final version will be approved by UN. Anyhow, the agreement demands withdrawal of Georgian troops from SO and creation of demilitarized zone around SO and Abkhazia and untill the international peacekeeping force will be created and deployed there, Russian maintain peacekeeping functions. Did Sukashvilli call back his dogs oh, excuse me honorable liberators of Tskhivali? I don't think so.
So, whereTF did you get that today all Russian troops had to quit from South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

p.s. Maybe it is your media who are liers?

[Lancer]

Sloww, we'll be getting out sooner than you think (I think) in order to put some muscle in NATO, very far east of where I served I'm happy to say. Good tank country.

Abrams are gonna own it.

[Ellestar]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
My best guess is that it's already been done:
*The E.U. and the U.S. have reacted far stronger than Moscow was expecting.

Nah, western spin-doctors acted as expected. As usual, no matter what they're against Russia. I mean, Georgians kill 2k civilians in just several days - that's 3% of the population of South Ossetia, and noone cares about it. With the exception of South Ossetia and Russia, of course. Instead, everyone talks about evil russians. At a times like these, i wish we'll launch all our ICBMs so to meet your expectations about how evil we are and so not to listen to all this hypocricity and double standarts. Instead of that, we're saving others according to UN mandate and everyone says we're evil, while nazi Georgians are of couse good, just as good as a NATO countries and Urkaine who sold weapons and trained an army of that Georgian maniac and mass murderer.

Originally posted by Zkribbler
*While it would be fun for Russia to gobble up Georgia, it would face nasty political and economic fallout from the E.U., U.S. and the former Soviet republic states of Eastern Europe. It's not worth the cost.

It's not worth the cost in either case, Georgia doesn't generate net profit even in ideal conditions. A war against such country will not be profitable under any conditions.

Originally posted by Zkribbler
* The stated goals of the Russians was to rescue the two breack-away areas from teh evil Georgians. That goal has been met. The Russians can claim victory.

Yeah, and unlike western leaders, our leaders actually do what they said they'll do.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Would you be cheering Bush on if he nuked Moscow in response to the invasion of Georgia?

Please do, and we'll launch a retaliatory counter-strike. Too bad i live in Moscow so i'll not see what will happen afterwards, but i bet it will be interesting too see. On a good side, i will not need to learn Chinese. Besides, if we'll be smart enough to launch a retaliatory counter-strike against all NATO allies like Japan and Israel, then China will have the biggest production capacity left intact in the world, and by far.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Putin isn't going to get to keep Georgia. They fought hard for independence in 1991, they are not going to return to the yoke of mother Russia again.

I think you're gravely mistaken, it's Abhazia and South Ossetia who fought for independence from Georgia around that time.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
What the Georgians are doing is pulling back to the lesser Caucasus, and protecting the capital. I don't see what's preventing the US from shoring them up. Then, if the US can get a carrier into the Black sea, that's a major deterrent.

ROFLMAO
Carrier as a deterrent against RUSSIA, of all countries, in range of a land-based anti-ship missiles (let alone fleet and aviation)? Surely you're crazy. USA worries that carriers will be useless in a defence of Taiwan, despite that China lacks heavy bombers for a long range anti-ship duties. Carrier in a Black Sea against Russia will be a big floating practice target.

P.S. If you want to know what happens to your sitting ducks in shallow waters, try to google "Millenium Challenge 2002" Note tha weapons used weren't made specifically to the task of sinking a carrier battle groups (unlike USSR heavy anti-ship missiles).

[DinoDoc]

You know Ellestar, I've given up waiting for that coward Serb to actually back up the rediculous genocide claim with something other than a Russian source. Since you've made similar rediculous claims would you like to step up to the plate?

[onodera]

Do you expect a Georgian source to come up with the evidence? Or Western journalists, who don't venture further than Gori?

[DinoDoc]

I expect something other than sources of extremely suspect credibility.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You know Ellestar, I've given up waiting for that coward Serb to actually back up the rediculous genocide claim with something other than a Russian source. Since you've made similar rediculous claims would you like to step up to the plate?

It's not good form to call someone a coward who is too far away to prove their guts imo.

[DinoDoc]

I didn't ask for your opinion, Lancer.

[Lancer]

You got it anyway.

[DinoDoc]

Would you have prefered that I call him deluded?

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I expect something other than sources of extremely suspect credibility.

Do you enjoy being a dick right now? Obviously there are no non-Russian sources with easy access to S. Ossetia, and there probably won't be any for days. So what is your point? Serb has every right to make the claims he makes - he produces sources you claim are biased, fine, then counter the arguement or claim with your own sources, as biased as they may be.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
Do you enjoy being a dick right now?

Is it being a dick to expect people to back up wild claims of genocide or Nazi like behavior with something other than information from Kremlin controlled outfits? The burden of proof is on the people making those claims after all. I'd let it go if the claims were dropped until neutral observers are in the area but they aren't dropped and instead continued to be repeated.