It's war.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by rmsharpe

Yeah, those damn buildings really looked like they were threatening Russia! Next thing you know, there'll be buildings in Moscow and Leni... St. Petersburg!

Do you agree that the NATO invasion of Afghanistan was an anti-terrorism operation? It would be trivial to produce such striking images from that operation as well.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Plato is still repeating the tired old lie that 1441 some how authorized the invasion of Iraq. You've been proven wrong so many times in so many threads it's sad that you're still clinging to that lie. The resolution specifically didn't authorize the invasion and required a second resolution to do that. The Bush Administration tried to get that second resolution but failed.

This has been proven over and over again but you keep dragging out this pathetic lie every time this subject comes up. Just read paragraph 12 of 1441 which says on the security council can determine what future actions if any need to be taken. The Russians and French insisted on that. It simply did not authorize the invasion and even you know that.

I am not going to get into the same old 1441 argument. However, to say something has been "proven" on Poly that is still being debated by some of the greatest legal scholars in the world is pretty much showing how little you really know about anything.

But, if you have any ability to read on tis site, you know that pretty much everybody already knows these things about you.
If you have read through my previous arguments about 1441 then you would know that while I feel that there should have been another resolution for war, that 1441 provided enough legal cover for the war to satisfy the incredibly low standard of international law.

As with many UNSC resolutions, the wording is carefully crafted so that multiple sides can interpret things in multiple ways. But if you were as smart as you like to think you are, then I am not telling you anything.

But anyway...it is clear that the Russians do not even have this type of argument for invading another country...which was my point to begin with before the 1441 vultures descended.

[BeBMan]

This thread sucks without Serb. Is he still banned?

As for this:

I wonder how many people support Tibetan autonomy, but not Ossetian.

I'd support any move to autonomy/independence where it can be considered reasonably justified and would actually improve the concrete situation "on the ground".*
















*) Of course, that's a whole lot of general babbling that means every case would need closer examination, which was actually my point

[Agathon]

Originally posted by PLATO

I am not going to get into the same old 1441 argument. However, to say something has been "proven" on Poly that is still being debated by some of the greatest conservative hacks in the world is pretty much showing how little you really know about anything.

FTFY

People who try to argue it is any different are the worst kind of sophists. Remember that scumbags have money and can afford lawyers.

[chequita guevara]

South Ossetia and Abkahzia declared independence from Georgia in 1992, and, up until now, have been acting as independent entities. That's sixteen years.

It's interesting how all those here blathering about Georgia's sovereign territory were all pro breakup of Yugoslavia.

Osettians and Abkahazians are not Georgians. The Caucasus is the most mixed up, polyglot area on Earth, with different ethnicities in every valley. These regions have every bit as much right to self-determination as any other people.

[onodera]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Russians are definitely targeting civilians inside Georgia proper now. Bombing apartment blocks in Gori.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550804.stm

I might be wrong, but I've seen this yesterday. This was Tskhinval and Georgian artillery then.

UPD: Look, the video still down the page clearly says "Tskhinval".

[chequita guevara]

Looks like Abkhazia is fighting Georgia now also.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Agathon



FTFY

People who try to argue it is any different are the worst kind of sophists. Remember that scumbags have money and can afford lawyers.

If you really want another 1441 debate, then I guess I will take the time to go do all the old research again (although I must admit I really don't want to take the time to do it). Just start another thread. What you are doing here is mere threadjacking.

The whole point that I am trying to make in this thread is that the Russians don't even have ANY argument concerning UNSC resolutions to be invading Georgia.

If you are so vehement about the US invasion of Iraq on legal principle, then let's hear what you have to say about Russia invading Georgia (which happens to be the actual topic being discussed).

[chequita guevara]

NOOOO!!!!! :yell:

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
South Ossetia and Abkahzia declared independence from Georgia in 1992, and, up until now, have been acting as independent entities. That's sixteen years.

It's interesting how all those here blathering about Georgia's sovereign territory were all pro breakup of Yugoslavia.

Osettians and Abkahazians are not Georgians. The Caucasus is the most mixed up, polyglot area on Earth, with different ethnicities in every valley. These regions have every bit as much right to self-determination as any other people.

I'm not so sure that I disagree with the fact that South Ossetia should be independent. With Yugoslavia, the UN was heavily involved and there was an international movement to make it happen. In Georgia, there is only Russian tanks and bombers. My issue is not with South Ossetia being independent, it is with Russia unilaterally invading another soverign country without any sort of international backing.

If the Russians really think they have a case, then they should be at the UNSC looking for at least some kind of tacit approval.

[Barnabas]

I wanted to say that Russia is a poor's man USA, but Asher did before

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
NOOOO!!!!! :yell:

I feel the same way, but for Agathon I will. Hopefully, if he decides to do it, he will return to his old fact based argument style instead of just changing statements to derogatory to those who disagree with him.

Still, I would be MUCH happier to pass on another 1441 debate and just agree to disagree. Then we can continue the discussion on the issue of the day.

[onodera]

Originally posted by PLATO
If the Russians really think they have a case, then they should be at the UNSC looking for at least some kind of tacit approval.

We tried to get some, but UNSC minced about and couldn't pass any resolution.

[Harry Tuttle]

The president of Georgia was just on TV. The CNN anchor started arguing with him, interrupted him about ten times, and tried to make a debate out of it. Am I wrong in saying that Saturday afternoon fluff anchors should just shut up when they have the head of a country on the air?

[chequita guevara]

If only they would act that way towards our own leaders.