It's war.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO
I'm not so sure that I disagree with the fact that South Ossetia should be independent. With Yugoslavia, the UN was heavily involved and there was an international movement to make it happen.

If Germany hadn't rushed to recognize Slovenia and Croatia, the UN may never have been involved.

Nor was the UN involved in Kosovo.

[PLATO]

In doing a little research this morning, I have found a lot of information concerning the Georgia Abkhaz conflict, but I have found nothing official on the South Ossetia conflict.

The text of the 1994 cease fire is below:

Agreement on a Cease-Fire and Separation of Forces,
signed in Moscow on 14 May 1994

[Original: Russian]

In the Declaration on Measures for a Political Settlement of the Georgian Abkhaz Conflict, signed in Moscow on 4 April 1994 (S/1994/397, annex I), the Parties committed themselves to strict compliance with a formal cease-fire from that date, and once again reaffirmed their commitment to the non-use of force or threat of the use of force against each other, as expressed in their communiqué of 13 January 1994. That commitment remains valid. This Agreement on a Cease-Fire and Separation of Forces formalizes that commitment.

The parties shall scrupulously observe the cease-fire on land, at sea and in the air and shall refrain from all military actions against each other.


The armed forces of the parties shall be separated in accordance with the following principles:


The area between lines B and D on the attached map (see appendix) shall constitute a security zone. There shall be no armed forces or heavy military equipment within this zone. The territory between lines A and B and lines D and E shall constitute a restricted-weapons zone. There shall be no heavy military equipment within this zone. The local civil authorities shall function in the security zone and the restricted-weapons zone. The police/militia employed for this purpose may carry personal arms;

Heavy military equipment includes:


All artillery and mortars of a calibre exceeding 18 mm;


All tanks;


All armoured transport vehicles;


The peace-keeping force of the Commonwealth of Independent States and the military observers, in accordance with the Protocol to this Agreement, shall be deployed in the security zone to monitor compliance with this Agreement;


The heavy military equipment to be withdrawn from the security zone and the restricted-weapons zone shall be stored in designated areas to be determined by the parties and shall be monitored by United Nations military observers;


Under the supervision of representatives of the peace-keeping force of the Commonwealth of Independent States and United Nations observers, with the participation of representatives of the parties from the Kodori valley, the troops of the Republic of Georgia shall be withdrawn to their places of deployment beyond the frontiers of Abkhazia;

A regular patrol of the peace-keeping force and international observers shall be organized concurrently in the Kodori valley;


All volunteer formations made up of persons from beyond the frontiers of Abkhazia shall be disbanded and withdrawn;


The movement of units and subunits of the peace-keeping force and of the international observers outside the security zone in the relevant areas shall be subject to agreement with the parties;


United Nations military observers shall also monitor the coastal waters and airspace between lines A and D;


In the event of an attack or a direct military threat against the peace-keeping force, it shall take appropriate measures for its safety and self-defence.


The precise demarcation on a detailed map and a plan for the separation of forces in the initial phase of the deployment of the peace-keeping force shall be worked out by the command of the peace-keeping force with the participation of the parties in the context of a step-by-step, comprehensive settlement, with a continuation of the return of refugees and displaced persons and in compliance with this Agreement, in a working group, which shall begin its work to this end in Moscow within five days after the signing of this Agreement. It shall complete this task within five days. Disengagement shall commence five days after the working group has completed its task. The process of disengagement shall be completed no later than 10 days after it has commenced.


A map indicating the security zone and the restricted-weapons zone is contained in the appendix.


Protocol. The Protocol concerning the peace-keeping force of the Commonwealth of Independent States is as follows:

"The parties agree that:"

"The function of the peace-keeping force of the Commonwealth of Independent States shall be to exert its best efforts to maintain the cease-fire and to see that it is scrupulously observed. Further, its presence should promote the safe return of refugees and displaced persons, especially to the Gali district. It shall supervise the implementation of the Agreement and the Protocol thereto with regard to the security zone and the restricted-weapons zone. In carrying out its mission, the force shall comply with local laws and regulations and shall not impede the functioning of the local civil administration. It shall enjoy freedom of movement in the security zone and the restricted-weapons zone and freedom of communications, and other facilities needed to fulfil its mission."

"The peace-keeping force of the Commonwealth of Independent States shall operate under the Interim Unified Command and the Commander of the Peace keeping Force."

The process of achieving a comprehensive political settlement shall be pursued.


The parties appeal to the United Nations Security Council to expand the mandate of the United Nations military observers in order to provide for their participation in the operations indicated above.


On the basis of the statement by the Council of Heads of State of the Commonwealth of Independent States dated 15 April 1994 (S/1994/476, annex), the parties appeal to the Council to take a decision on the use of a collective peace-keeping force within the zone of the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict.

The referenced map above could shed some more light on things, but I could not find it.

This cease fire does not seem to be refernced in UNSC resolutions, although a previous cease fire from 1993 was endorsed in UNSC resolution 892 by "urging" the parties to comply with it.

Resolution 906 "Calls upon once again all concerned to respect the sovereignty and
territorial integrity of the Republic of Georgia"

All of these resolutions appear to address only Abkhazia.

Does anyone have access to a map that shows the demilitarized zone and where it is in relation to South Ossetia?

[PLATO]

The latest resolution from 2007:

Resolution 1781 (2007)
Adopted by the Security Council at its 5759th meeting on
15 October 2007
The Security Council,
Recalling all its relevant resolutions including resolution 1752 of 13 April
2007 (S/RES/1752),
Welcoming the reports of the Secretary-General on the activities of the United
Nations Observer Mission in Georgia of 18 July 2007 (S/2007/439) and 4 October
2007 (S/2007/588),
Noting with serious concern all recent armed incidents that have afflicted the
conflict resolution process in Georgia, deploring in particular those in which lives
were lost, and reiterating the importance of maintaining the separation of forces and
the preservation of the ceasefire,
Supporting the sustained efforts of the Secretary-General and of his Special
Representative with the assistance of the Group of Friends of the Secretary-General
as well as the Russian Federation in its capacity as facilitator and of the OSCE,
underlining the increased importance of the meetings in the Geneva format as the
forum for meaningful political dialogue,
Stressing the importance of close and effective cooperation between UNOMIG
and the CIS peacekeeping force as they currently play an important stabilizing role
in the conflict zone, and recalling that a lasting and comprehensive settlement of the
conflict will require appropriate security guarantees,
Stressing that economic development is urgently required in Abkhazia,
Georgia, to improve the livelihoods of the communities affected by the conflict, in
particular refugees and internally displaced persons,
Regretting the continued lack of trust between the two sides, and underlining
the importance of constructive goodwill and respect for each other’s concerns,
1. Reaffirms the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty,
independence and territorial integrity of Georgia within its internationally
recognized borders, and supports all efforts by the United Nations and the Group of
Friends of the Secretary-General, which are guided by their determination to
promote a settlement of the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict only by peaceful means and
within the framework of the Security Council resolutions;
S/RES/1781 (2007)
2 07-54078
2. Reaffirms its strong support for UNOMIG, calls upon the parties to
cooperate fully with the mission, deems it necessary to strengthen the mission’s
observation capacity as recommended by UNOMIG in the “Joint Fact-Finding
Group Report on The Rocket Firing Incident in the upper Kodori valley on
11 March 2007” as well as in the Secretary-General’s Report S/2007/588 of
4 October 2007, and requests the Secretary-General to continue to explore options
for the implementation of those recommendations and to inform the Council on
progress;
3. Calls on the Georgian side to ensure that the situation in the upper
Kodori valley is in line with the Moscow agreement on ceasefire and separation of
forces of 14 May 1994; and calls on the Abkhaz side to exercise restraint in
connection with the Georgian commitments with regard to the Kodori valley;
4. Expresses its serious concern with the ongoing numerous violations of
the ceasefire and separation of forces regime in the Zone of Conflict;
5. Expresses serious concern over the incidents that have taken place within
and outside the Zone of Conflict as observed by UNOMIG and reflected in the
reports of the Secretary-General of 18 July and 4 October 2007, including those on
11 March 2007 and 20 September 2007;
6. Strongly urges all parties to consider and address seriously each other’s
legitimate security concerns, to refrain from any acts of violence or provocation,
including political action or rhetoric, and to comply fully with previous agreements
regarding ceasefire and non-use of violence;
7. Calls on both sides to finalize without delay the document on the non-use
of violence; and calls on both sides to finalize without delay the document on the
return of refugees and internally displaced persons;
8. Urges the continued active engagement of both sides within the Joint
Fact-Finding Group and, in this context, expressing its support for the “Joint Fact-
Finding Group Report on The Rocket Firing Incident in the upper Kodori valley on
11 March 2007”, and endorses the recommendations made by UNOMIG in the
report;
9. Welcomes the commitment given by both sides during the meeting
chaired by the United Nations in Bonn on 27 and 28 June 2007 to resume regular
consultations within the Quadripartite meetings, and urges both sides to finally fulfil
this commitment;
10. Calls upon the parties to further increase their bilateral contacts by
making full use of all existing mechanisms as described in the relevant Security
Council resolutions in order to come to a peaceful settlement, including the safe and
dignified return of refugees and internally displaced persons;
11. Renews its support for confidence-building measures proposed by the
Group of Friends of the Secretary-General and endorsed through resolution 1752 of
13 April 2007, and, in the conviction that they will serve the development of broader
and unbiased contacts between the communities of the divided country, urges the
Georgian and Abkhaz sides to implement these measures without conditions;
12. Recalls, with a view to achieving a lasting and comprehensive settlement,
its support for the principles contained in the “Paper on Basic Principles for the
S/RES/1781 (2007)
07-54078 3
Distribution of Competencies between Tbilisi and Sukhumi”, and welcomes
additional ideas that the sides would be willing to offer with a view to conducting
creatively and constructively a political dialogue under the aegis of the United
Nations;
13. Welcomes the deployment of UNOMIG police in Gali and the
cooperation of the Abkhaz side, and calls for a further deepening of this
cooperation;
14. Stresses anew the urgent need to alleviate the plight of refugees and
internally displaced persons and the need for a perspective of life in security and
dignity in particular for a new generation growing up outside Abkhazia, Georgia;
15. Reiterates and reaffirms as fundamentally important the right of return
for all the refugees and the internally displaced persons to Abkhazia, Georgia,
reaffirms the importance of such people’s return to their homes and property and
that individual property rights have not been affected by the fact that owners had to
flee during the conflict and that the residency rights and the identity of those owners
will be respected, and calls on both sides to implement the UNHCR’s Strategic
Directions for their return in the first instance to the Gali region;
16. Welcomes existing and encourages further contacts between
representatives of civil society, and appeals to both sides to promote without
reservation the active engagement of citizens and officials in such contacts;
17. Underlines that it is the primary responsibility of both sides to provide
appropriate security and to ensure the freedom of movement throughout the zone of
conflict of UNOMIG, the CIS peacekeeping force and other international personnel
and calls on both sides to fulfil their obligations in this regard and to extend full
cooperation to UNOMIG and the CIS peacekeeping force;
18. Welcomes the efforts being undertaken by UNOMIG to implement the
Secretary-General’s zero tolerance policy on sexual exploitation and abuse and to
ensure full compliance of its personnel with the United Nations code of conduct,
requests the Secretary-General to continue to take all necessary action in this regard
and to keep the Security Council informed, and urges troop-contributing countries to
take appropriate preventive action including the conduct of predeployment
awareness training, and to take disciplinary action and other action to ensure full
accountability in cases of such conduct involving their personnel;
19. Decides to extend the mandate of UNOMIG for a new period terminating
on 15 April 2008;
20. Requests the Secretary-General to make use of this mandate in order to
support the parties in implementing measures to build confidence and to establish an
intensive and meaningful dialogue, with a view to achieve a lasting and
comprehensive settlement, including the facilitation of a meeting at the highest
level, and to inform the Council in his next report on the situation in Abkhazia,
Georgia, on progress made in this respect;
21. Strongly supports the efforts of the Special Representative of the
Secretary-General and calls on the Group of Friends of the Secretary-General to
continue giving him their steadfast and unified support;
22. Decides to remain actively seized of the matter

Still...nothing on South Ossetia

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If Germany hadn't rushed to recognize Slovenia and Croatia, the UN may never have been involved.

Nor was the UN involved in Kosovo.

Yeah, the underlying conflict between various parts/people of Yugoslavia would just have never surfaced, that's for sure. Just like now....oh wait, nobody rushed to recognize the independence of South Ossetia.

[PLATO]

Here is a map. I am at a loss to see where a demilitarized zone in the conflict with Abkhazia would have any bearing on South Ossetia.

Can anyone provide any texts of agreements concerning South Ossetia that would authorize Russian intervention? Clearly, the UN has repeatedly called on all parties to respect the territorial soverignty of Georgia. As far as I can tell, the Russians are moving with zero authority from any agreement or international body.

Can someone find the agreement that the Russians say authorize this?

[PLATO]

McCain and Obama:

Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Russia should pull its forces out. "The consequences for Euro-Atlantic stability and security are grave," he said.

Democrat Barack Obama condemned Russia's role. "What is clear is that Russia has invaded Georgia's sovereignty, has encroached on Georgia's sovereignty, and it is very important for us to resolve this issue as quickly as possible."

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0850115420080808?pageNumber=3&virtualBrandChannel=10112

[onodera]

I'll try.

[Heresson]

It seems that I was right: original Ossetia is north to Caucasus, Ossetians migrated south since XIII century, but remained under georgian rule. Therefore, I think they don't have to have independance, but autonomy.

[onodera]

http://www.noar.ru/content_full.php?nid=155&binn_rubrik_pl_news=146

Click the link that leads to the pdf. It's in Russian, though.

And Kosovo is the original center of Serbia, Heresson.

[Heresson]

I am completely aware of that, but:
1) I always claimed here Pec and Prizren should remain in Serbia
2) Albanians are remains of Traco-Illyrian population, so they were there even before Slavs appeared in Balkans.

[BeBMan]

If these types of historical justifications had much relevance the whole world would be part of the African Union today

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera

http://www.noar.ru/content_full.php?nid=155&binn_rubrik_pl_news=146

Click the link that leads to the pdf. It's in Russian, though.

While online translator are not very good, here is what I came up with:

From the moment of signing the Agreement, the contradictory parties
Undertake to take all measures to the termination of armed conflicts and
To full-scale cease-fire by June, 28th, 1992

From the moment of cease-fire on June, 28th, 1992 confronting
The parties deduce the armed formations with a view of formation of a corridor,
Contact adjoining a line. The conclusion of formations is carried out in
Current of three day.
Passage of a line of contact, corridor, define its breadthes
Joint groups of observers

With a view of demilitarization of area of the conflict and exception of a possibility
Involving of Armed forces of the Russian Federation in the conflict, Russian
Side within 20 days from the moment of a ceasefire and cultivation
Contradictory sides deduces deployed in area Tskhinvali 37-th
Engineering-ñàïåðíûé shelfs and 292 separate fighting helicopter shelfs with
Divisions of maintenance and service.

With a view of maintenance of the control over cease-fire, a conclusion
The armed formations, dissolution of forces of self-defense and maintenance of a mode
Safety in the specified zone the Mixed Supervisory commission is established in
Structure of the parties involved in the conflict which carries out the functions in
Interaction with the group of military observers created according to
Arrangements in Êàçáåãè

Each of the parties, participating in work of the Commission, appoints in its structure
The representatives. A place of stay of Supervisory commission is
Tskhinvali

For performance of the specified problems at Supervisory commission are created
The mixed forces, as agreed, on an establishment of the world and maintenance
The law and order. At the Commission the mixed groups also will be created
The observers, safety zones placed on perimeter

Supervisory commission and forces given it immediately
Start; to performance assigned to them the present Agreement of problems.

In case of infringement of conditions of the present Agreement, Control
The commission spends investigation of its circumstances and undertakes urgent measures
On restoration of the world and the law and order, and also on íåäîïóùåíèþ similar
Infringements.

Financing of activity of Supervisory commission and given to it
Forces it is carried out by the Parties on an equal share basis.

The parties will immediately start negotiations on economic
To restoration of the areas which are being a zone of the conflict and creation of conditions for
Returnings of refugees.
The parties consider inadmissible application of economic sanctions and
Blockade, any other handicapes on a free way of movement of the goods, services and people
Also undertake to provide conditions for rendering the humanitarian help to the population

Sides will endeavour to the objective and weighed illumination in
Mass media of process of settlement. In these objectives at
Supervisory commission the special multilateral press centre is established

The present Agreement inures from the moment of signing.
Sochi, on June, 24th, 1992, in triplicate on Georgian, Russian and ossetic
Languages, and all texts are equally authentic.

It is difficult to determine exactly what was agreed upon, but it seems that any breach of the cease fire should be dealt with by the commission of all three parties that seems to have been set up...not by unilateral action of any of the parties. In this case, both Georgia and Russia would be inviolation of the cease fire agreement. Further, other than the obligation of the commission to take action, no authorization for unilateral enforcement by any party seems authorized.

onodera, perhaps you can shed some light on what this agreement actually says and what Russia's interpretation of it is?

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
South Ossetia and Abkahzia declared independence from Georgia in 1992, and, up until now, have been acting as independent entities. That's sixteen years.

You wouldn't say that about Rhodesia!

[Heresson]

Originally posted by BeBro
If these types of historical justifications had much relevance the whole world would be part of the African Union today

I think the most acceptable historical claims are 1100 years ago.
I want Poland up to Hanower and Hamburg

[faded glory]

welp.


Seems like a larger war brewing. I really hope we stand up for Georgia. Its a democratic nation under attack by a fascist autocratic one.

And there is no dispute Russia is no longer a democratic nation. Elections were a farce and putin should not be in the political scene at all.