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Iraq war winding down...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Arrian


    I'm not saying that. I was saying that whether it's 100K or a million, that's a ****load of dead people. So I don't really care to argue about it, since even if I "win" and the number is close to 100k instead of 1 million, it's not good.

    ...

    Dan, is the point of this Civil War sidebar to compare Bush to Lincoln?

    -Arrian
    Well, you did ask if it was crazy somehow, and I do think it is totally unfair to count them that way.

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    • #32
      Not really. I have been developing the gloomy opinion that truly excellent military leadership is the exception rather than the rule in our armed forces.

      Petraeus notwithstanding, our military leadership appears inflexible to new ideas and has surprisingly little intellectual backing for what it does. Iraq was drifting for about 4 years under one military leader after another.

      Let's put it as a hypothetical. If Johnson had found a Petraeus, would Vietnam have turned out differently? If Bush had not found Petraeus, how would Iraq have turned out?
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #33
        I'd just like to remind everyone the main reason why violence fell over the past year.

        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

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        • #34
          This is certainly good news and I hope the violence stays low in the future. While the U.S. should never have invaded a sovereign country in the first place, I'm glad Bush was ethical enough to stay in Iraq and fix the mess he had made instead of abandoning the Iraqi people to chaos as his Democratic opponents wanted. Just think of how bad things could be right now if American troops had pulled out of Iraq by March 2008 like Barack Obama wanted!

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          • #35
            While Petraeus is obviously a very competant commander, lets not cannonize him.


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            • #36
              Great. If the war is winding down, then surely W. can pull our troops out by next year....
              VANGUARD

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              • #37
                I doubt that Bush will pull them out next year.
                “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                "Capitalism ho!"

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                • #38
                  But why not? Since fighting has essentially stopped, clearly the Iraqis can take it from here.

                  W. got us into Iraq. He should be the one to get our troops out.

                  He can even put up a "Mission Accomplished" banner, if he wants.
                  VANGUARD

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                  • #39
                    Whilst Petraeus can obviously take some of the credit, giving him a ticker tape parade seems excessive. He didn't cause the oil price to soar, or the backlash against terrorism that's permeating the Islamic world. For example, a huge petition against terrorism has been launched in Pakistan, gaining 42 million signatures, making it the largest petition in history.

                    Yeh Hum Naheen

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Vanguard
                      But why not? Since fighting has essentially stopped, clearly the Iraqis can take it from here.
                      Well, he'll have about 20 days to do it.
                      “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                      "Capitalism ho!"

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                      • #41
                        I bet he decided to go in in less time than that...
                        "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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                        • #42
                          So far I have pumped tens of thousands of dollars into the Iraqi economy and helped start improving the infrastructure of a city and the surrounding area. Personally.
                          "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                          "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                          "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                          "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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                          • #43
                            If Bush had not found Petraeus, how would Iraq have turned out?
                            We don't know how Iraq has turned out yet.

                            As for Vietnam... I doubt it. The problem* was with the SV regime, don't you think? If it had more support from its own people, maybe Vietnam goes the route of Korea, regardless of which US general was in charge of our forces.

                            -Arrian

                            (* aside from the obvious "we never should have been there in the first place" problem).
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sandman
                              a huge petition against terrorism has been launched in Pakistan, gaining 42 million signatures, making it the largest petition in history.
                              They just don't want President Obama to attack them like he said he would.
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                              • #45
                                I hope you understand the full context of that particular scenario (actionable intelligence, refusal by Pakistan to help).

                                -Arrian
                                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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