GM Loses Another $16 Billion -- Bankrupt?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Naw, they're of vital national interest. We must maintain a manufacturing sector and the French have shown how it can be done while DanS's Thatcherite methods show the worst possible outcome. The nation must have a viable high end manufacturing base in order to stay a viable world power and auto companies are the crown jewels. Reorganize them, bring in new management, junk the union contracts, and bridge them over to a new generation.

My personal preference is to nationalize them before they fail, reorganize them into about four companies with global reach, pay for a whole new generation of cars, and then reprivatize them. Republicans are not up to this task but thankfully Democrats will soon be in charge and these crown jewels can be saved for the nation's future industrial needs.

Christ. If that's the other option, I'll shut up about the $25 billion.

-Arrian

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither
We don't have room for all of them (yet) and don't need half of Southern Ontario riding West on Greyhound.

I kid, sortta.

Those oil prices don't go back up and the Greyhounds will be returning full (again).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Naw, they're of vital national interest. We must maintain a manufacturing sector and the French have shown how it can be done while DanS's Thatcherite methods show the worst possible outcome. The nation must have a viable high end manufacturing base in order to stay a viable world power and auto companies are the crown jewels. Reorganize them, bring in new management, junk the union contracts, and bridge them over to a new generation.

My personal preference is to nationalize them before they fail, reorganize them into about four companies with global reach, pay for a whole new generation of cars, and then reprivatize them. Republicans are not up to this task but thankfully Democrats will soon be in charge and these crown jewels can be saved for the nation's future industrial needs.

You sound like an ultra-nationalist. Do you expect the Democrats to junk the union contracts? The american people want to be unionized. Honestly, you want to give out billion dollar handouts to the rich and make the poor pay even more.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Oerdin
We must maintain a manufacturing sector and the French have shown how it can be done

Just to be clear, you're ready to take a 30% pay cut to do it like the French?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You sound like an ultra-nationalist. Do you expect the Democrats to junk the union contracts? The american people want to be unionized. Honestly, you want to give out billion dollar handouts to the rich and make the poor pay even more.

The 'american people' who want to be unionized are the ones looking at the oversized paychecks and benefits packages ... and the 'poor' are certainly not those unionized workers making more than I am while putting car parts together

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

How many people here own a car made in France? Anybody?

Believe it or not, there are other markets for cars outside of Canada and the US.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DanS
Those are taken care of by the pension funds. If the pension funds are under water, a portion of the pension payments will be made by the federal government from insurance money collected from all companies with pensions.

Only partially.

[Kidlicious]

snoopy,

There's more than financial benefits to belonging to a union. Union jobs are just better. Stop hating.

[chequita guevara]

True dat.

[Aeson]

Nationalizing and then spinning off (hopefully sound) private corporations from failed auto manufacturers would be the lesser of the two evils. Propping up failed corporations indefinitely, pretending they're still private entities, is just about the worst thing we could do. It's just an implied guarantee for mediocrity and worse.

Personally though, let them fail, their assets get sold off, hopefully to someone(s) with an actual vision other than, "lets make **** (direction, products, and labor agreements) and get bailed out over and over... a constant drain on the economy and willful inhibitor of innovation and progress."

Auto manufacture (and Airlines for that matter) can be profitable enterprises. They won't be as long as they're given access to the government tit whenever they **** up though.

[DanS]

You can't blame these folks for trying, but sometimes you have to wonder what planet they are on.

From the FT...

GM in hunt for Buffett-style capital injection

General Motors is seeking a sizeable capital injection from outside investors as a possible alternative to a deal with Chrysler, the carmaker’s smaller Detroit-based rival.

Such an investment would be along the lines of Warren Buffett’s recent purchases of minority stakes in General Electric and Goldman Sachs.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/747b7020-9fb5-11dd-a3fa-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

The only problem is that GE has $200 billion in common stockholders lined up behind Buffett. Goldman has $50 billion in common stockholders lined up behind Buffett. Both are very profitable concerns and bluest of blue chip companies. Buffett isn't going to lose a dime on those deals in this lifetime and he's earning 10% per annum.

Nobody's going to provide money to a dead company under Buffett's terms. Maybe Oerdin wants to cut a personal check to GM to prop up the company.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Aeson
Nationalizing and then spinning off (hopefully sound) private corporations from failed auto manufacturers would be the lesser of the two evils. Propping up failed corporations indefinitely, pretending they're still private entities, is just about the worst thing we could do. It's just an implied guarantee for mediocrity and worse.

Hmm. Good point. $25 billion won't be the end of this.

Personally though, let them fail, their assets get sold off, hopefully to someone(s) with an actual vision other than, "lets make **** (direction, products, and labor agreements) and get bailed out over and over... a constant drain on the economy and willful inhibitor of innovation and progress."

Auto manufacture (and Airlines for that matter) can be profitable enterprises. They won't be as long as they're given access to the government tit whenever they **** up though.

-Arrian

[Q Classic]

Chronic mismanagement has led the American auto companies into this current situation.

They did not adapt successfully. Let them die.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I agree Management has been horrendous in the US auto industry (and for that matter most of the rest of our industries as well), American management have become an international laughing stock which shows how far we have fallen when once considers that we were once the most highly respected managers in the world. I think its all due to a management culture thats gotten soft and fat off the incredible productivity of the American worker. Management thought THEY were really the ones who were making all that profit and duly rewarded themselves for it while becoming increasingly retarded at how to actually manage anything. It's all finally caught up with them and they should indeed be fired en mass and replaced with Japanese ringers who could make their businesses so profitable they could pay the workers more then what their making now.

[Q Classic]

I don't know if the Asians would do that, necessarily. Automation and robotics are part of why their companies are so efficient...