Hypocrites and American politics

[Patroklos]

And you don't think McCain is using his military service for political gain?

He barely mentions it actually, unless it is relevant to the topic at hand or he is asked about it. Even then he sounds like he is talking about any old veteran experience, he is hardly playing it up to the level he could given the unique and extraordinary circumstances of his personal experience as a veteran. Hell the Democrats themselves provide most of the opportunities to wheel it out to the greatest effect, as Clark just made clear.

If you need another example, how often does he mention his son served in Iraq when the usuals are throwing around the chicken hawk BS?

he took shrapnel in the arm, that’s good enough for me... I dont know if I'd report that for a medal but if other guys were getting em for similar wounds I might have. If they need to make distinctions between the severity of wounds, so be it... That dont mean the wound didn't happen, and the risk of death.

I have an Iraq Campaign Medal on my chest, but do you see me constantly posting about how I was in Iraq whenever we discuss that topic here? I get asked about it by Soldiers and Marines all the time and I am quick to point out that I got it for operating in Iraqi territorial waters amongst oil platforms and not from being on the ground because I don't for one second want to misrepresent that my experience was analogous to what they probably experienced shore side. That isn't because I am not proud of my service there or think it was worthless, but because I know their experiences were probably harder, more dangerous and stressing than anything I experienced. If I meet them at a bar or something out of uniform I won't even mention I was there at all, because relative to what they went through my experience isn't really important.

Oerdin does the same thing, he is very careful to make sure we don't think he was kicking in doors in Sadr city and that his observations reflect what he was actually doing vice what one might just assume if he simply said "I was in Iraq." Again, that doesn't mean what he was doing wasn't difficult or important in its own right, just different and less relevant in some ways.

Kerry would have probably done the same thing if he was in a private group of veterans at a VA chess table concerning his rather mundane PHs, but he didn't when he thought it might provide some political capital. I have to say I myself was rather impressed when I heard about 3 PHs, a BS, and a SS. And if he had gotten up a public veteran's event and said "yeah guys, those really aren't anything to fuss about, I am proud of them but some did far more for the same awards" most probably would have appreciated his modesty and the SBVT's would have lost the wind in their sails.

That is until they watched/read his Senate apperances and heard about who he was associated with post Vietnam. Kerry made the decision to court the fringe left of that day to get political office knowing he was burning bridges, he has nobody else to blame but himself that veterans remembered the double cross.

[DRoseDARs]

Jesus f*cking Christ, people, Teh Google is not difficult to use (unless you're Texan ). POW status and Naval Service is to McCain what 9/11 was to Rudy. The man has been using his military service as a talking point since his first campaign in 1982 when he carpetbagged his way into Arizona. It's been used in his campaign television ads as recently as LAST MONTH which ended yesterday.

[Arrian]

The Dems need to not make McCain's war record an issue. The Republicans no doubt salivate anytime it comes up, just waiting for the chance to cry foul. This isn't hard. Just shut up about it, and go after the issues.

edit: the headline from the Slate article on this says it all:

Democrats attack McCain's war record. McCain rejoices.

-Arrian

[Ramo]

This is the actual interview:

CLARK: He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee. And he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded — that wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, "I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not, do you want to take the risk, what about your reputation, how do we handle this publicly? He hasn't made those calls, Bob.


SCHIEFFER: Can I just interrupt you? I have to say, Barack Obama hasn't had any of these experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down.

CLARK: I don't think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president.

The suggestion that Clark was demeaning McCain's service is completely absurd. Saying that military experience is not a prerequisite for a successful Presidency, which clearly was all that Clark was doing, is not a smear.

That said, this was bad strategory on Clark's part. The press was obviously going to react this way (the idea that McCain's service indicates managerial competence wrt foreign policy is an axiom among these guys), and this helped to derail Obama's "patriotism" speech.

He barely mentions it actually

He talked about his military service a few days ago in his last major speech (to Latino activists). The idea that he rarely brings it up is a myth manufactured completely by the press.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ramo

The suggestion that Clark was demeaning McCain's service is completely absurd. Saying that military experience is not a prerequisite for a successful Presidency, which clearly was all that Clark was doing, is not a smear.

Upon seeing the actual interview it seems clear Clark directly responded to the question put to him and now people are trying to spin this using fake outrage.

[Patroklos]

Upon seeing the actual interview it seems clear Clark directly responded to the question put to him and now people are trying to spin this using fake outrage.

Oh come on, to suggest that being a career O-6 who commanded a large operational unit does not impart any experiance relevant to being president (hello, Commander and Chief?) is ridiculous on its face and Clark knows it.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


That would be "couldn't care less". So much for your theories on Texas education.

Neither the Veteran's of Foreign War, nor the American Legion endorsed Kerry.

Can anyone spot what differentiates this example of written Texlish from Standard English ?

Yes, that's right, all you Hispanic citizens, 'veterans' is a plural noun, and so does not require an apostrophe at the end of 'veteran'.

Thus, properly: 'Neither the Veterans Of Foreign War'...


This has been brought to you by The George Bush Foundation For A Better Literation Of Texas.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Upon seeing the actual interview it seems clear Clark directly responded to the question put to him and now people are trying to spin this using fake outrage.

He responds to it using stupid language. If anything this undermines any chance of him being Veep... he just doesn't have political chops to be able to answer questions properly (as the press is looking for you to step into whatever they've laid out as a trap).

[chequita guevara]

The Dems ought to take a page from Rove's play book. You attack an opponent on their strengths, not their weaknesses. People already understand the weaknesses of a candidate. You have to undermine what makes them look viable in the first place.

I have seen unsubstantiated reports that McCain was treated quite well while in Vietnam. The Dems ought to be investigating the truth or falsity of that. If it's true, they should destroy him.

But they won't, because they're Democrats.

[rah]

treated quite well as a pow. Unless they put him up in a luxury hotel, I doubt this can be exploited.

[Patroklos]

I have seen unsubstantiated reports that McCain was treated quite well while in Vietnam. The Dems ought to be investigating the truth or falsity of that. If it's true, they should destroy him.

You heard that because your far left bretheran are doing exactly what you suggest. Attacking them McCain on his strenghs by making stuff up, not invesigating and then critisizing smear worthy truth you. Would you like to bet on how that turns out for them?

[Patroklos]

treated quite well as a pow. Unless they put him up in a luxury hotel, I doubt this can be exploited.

I hear the masseur there was quite skilled, rope bindings and are great stress relievers, they go straight to the muscle tension. He pioneered the now in high demand use of bayonets in acupuncture as well

[rah]

Swiftboating worked on Kerry because of all the crap he spewed when he came back. Vets wouldn't and didn't stand up for him because of it. (at least most anyway)

And he was never in a pow camp, so he couldn't garner any sympathy there.

And finally he looks like a weasel.


I hope they continue trying this type of thing on McCain.
It will only backfire on them.

But then the Dems don't usually need any help looking silly.

[Kidlicious]

Why would McCain have to be attacked at all? He doesn't seem to have a chance in hell.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Why would McCain have to be attacked at all? He doesn't seem to have a chance in hell.

I seriously don't understand how you can claim to live on the same planet as the rest of us.

...

You do claim to live on Earth, right?