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French military shoot civilians at hostage demonstration

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  • #46
    A witness of the scene tells his story



    J'étais à 50m lorsque l'accident s'est produit, sur le trottoir d'en face, en train de faire un enregistrement audio des tirs pour ma sonothèque (1). La démonstration s'est produite sur un petit stade ouvert au public. Les quatre cotés du stade étaient accessibles à des personnes, le public étant massé surtout sur les cotés ouest et sud, le nord étant occupé par le podium et l'est par les soldats préparant les autres exercices.

    Le scénario était le suivant : une colonne d'une douzaine de soldat, en tenue de commando, traversait le terrain du nord vers le sud, pour atteindre un objectif situé devant le public au sud, une "maison" dans laquelle était détenu un ressortissant. le ressortissant était libéré, puis évacué vers le nord. Soudain, des tirs hostiles viennent de derrière la maison. Une partie du commando évacue le ressortissant vers le nord, l'autre partie le couvre en tirant à l'arme automatique à feu nourri et continu, dans la direction du public disposé en sud. Dans le même temps, les soldats déposent au sol, pendant qu'ils se retirent en tirant, des fumigènes censés les masquer de la vue des tireurs hostiles ; se faisant, ils se privent aussi de toute visibilité dans la direction dans laquelle ils tirent (tirs "à l'aveugle").
    Pendant toute la séquence de tir, deux soldats tirent pour couvrir deux autres qui reculent, puis échangent les rôles, de manière à se retirer progressivement.
    Pendant la deuxième partie de la séquence de tir, on avait donc, alignés, les tireurs, l'écran de fumée, la cible, et...le public. Sur mon enregistrement de l'accident, je constate que la séquence de tir a durée 35 secondes, sans interruption

    Sumary:
    The action took place in an open field where the public had free access to all sides, but they were more numerous in the south and west sides.
    The scenario was the liberation and evacuation of a hostage by 12 soldiers.
    During the evacuation process, hostile fire - comming from the south part - tried to prevent the evacuation. While part of the commando got the hostage away, the other part had to cover them. To cover, they start heavy fire in the direction of the terrorists. 2 by 2 they alternated fire, retreating and smoke screening.
    Problem with this was that the firing soldiers ended with no visibility to where they were firing at, and that they were firing in the direction of the smoke, the terrorists... and the public behind.
    The witness was making a sound record and he checked afterwards: the firing sequence took 35 seconds, uninterrupted.

    According to me the responsability of the officers who organized the scenario and allowed the public all around is high.
    The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.

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    • #47
      A terrible tragedy.
      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

      Comment


      • #48
        As opposed to teh other kind of tragedy?

        Hamlet
        THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
        AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
        AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
        DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Nostromo


          You still find that joke funny?
          As it still draws a reaction from the french, yes I do. ****in' hilarious actually.
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Patroklos
            I have never seen these corks you guys speak of. Wouldn't it depend the particular gas recoil system a particular rifle uses? Sim/rubber rounds for the M16 seem to debunk this cork requirement
            I've shot M16 blanks with the blank adapter / cork.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by LDiCesare . Why did they fire a FAMAS instead of using a sniper? That's totally silly. There's one sniper in every infantry section, so there's no reason to send someone with a FAMAS shoot in the middle of a crowd, in real operations. In an demo, that's outright stupid.
              Some of the soldiers were simulating terrorists, but it is still foolish.
              Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
              Japher: "crap, did I just post in this thread?"
              "Bloody hell, Lefty.....number one in my list of persons I have no intention of annoying, ever." Bugs ****ing Bunny
              From a 6th grader who readily adpated to internet culture: "Pay attention now, because your opinions suck"

              Comment


              • #52
                First, let me take responsability for the word 'cork', because I didn't know what was the english word for it.
                After some search, it seems, it is called a Blank Fire Adapter (BFA)

                So, my apologies.

                According to some bloggers, yes, the FAMAS used for that day were all equiped with BFAs. According to the same bloggers, metallic parts, coming from a BFA were found on the ground afterwards.
                I could not cross check this info with any official source, but as the official theory is still the accident, I would believe this blog info might be true.

                Now the (not so) surprising info, is that the firer, was precisely the sergent in charge of the amo (whatever this function is called in english). So it seems that the live amo was some magazine he had not put back yet in the right place.

                I'm glad I'm not in his shoes right now...
                The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.

                Comment


                • #53
                  ...... or maybe he's a psycho, or maybe he's the Jackal.
                  "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Putin would be proud *wipes tear from his eye8
                    Speaking of Erith:

                    "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Patroklos


                      I honestly did miss that

                      I calculated differently, 17(60/1000).



                      We know that, but it is the only number given so we are estimating off of it. For all we know he fired 100 rounds and missed altogether with 83 of them.
                      Or he shot and injured 17 people in a row with one bullet.
                      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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