Finalists for 2016 Olympics

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by snoopy369

As Q noted, the Koreans would have been the Navy. China never was interested in a navy or seafaring - you must very poorly understand the (pre-modern) Chinese mindset if you think they had any interest whatsoever in that.

I'm not willing to accept the evidence that the Chinese sailed to South America (the 1421 hypothesis) but that statement is patently untrue. It's pretty clear, however, that the Chinese sailed large fleets to at least Africa until the mid 15th century.

Regardless, Mongolia != China in any sense - they conquered China (parts), not the other way around. Whether or not some members of the invasion force may have been Chinese - and I doubt they had all that many - they certainly were not a Chinese invasion force.

My gist was that by the time Kublai was well ensconced in power, ie during the second invasion of Japan, a "Mongol" army would be more Chinese than mongol just as the Mongol government was run by the Chinese bureaucracy.

Were Koreans also involved? Almost undoubtedly since they were also part of the Mongol empire, but Kublai ruled from China.

Further, they didn't actually succeed - or even get close to succeeding - due to either the weather or the Japanese defensive forces. I personally suspect the weather (and their inadequately built boats, which probably would have been built by people not experienced in rougher waters) but I'm not an expert.

Your challenge said nothing about whether an invasion succeeded

Originally posted by snoopy369 I'm fairly conversant on East Asian history, and can't recall a single time when China attempted to claim Japan as its territory.

Generally the Chinese considered Japan to be a land of barbarians...

Tell you what. Read over this article and point me to the part where Japan was occupied by, invaded by, or owed tribute to China...

Kublai Khan ruled from China and adopted chinese mannerisms. His heirs ruled China. Large parts of his armies and navies were Chinese. I think the argument can be made, therefore, that the chinese, as much as the mongols, invaded Japan. No one would suggest, for example, that the british army that fought Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden were german because George II was one.

I'm not an expert on chinese seafaring either, but I seem to know more than enough in this case.