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Is Bush the worst president, ever?

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  • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
    Which is why you've had terrorists since then, and why it happened less then 6 months into his adminstration.

    I'm sorry Che, that won't fly. I don't buy it that Bush was responsible for the institutional differences.


    There was one foreign terrorist attack in the U.S. under Clinton's watch. Another major one was foiled seven years later. As for 9/11 happening six months in to Bush's watch, do you know how to count? 9 - 1 =8. If you can't even do the most basic math, why should we trust your brain when it comes to anything else.

    In any event, there are no indications that there were any other major terrorists plots in the U.S. disrupted by the Feds. Yes, the Lakawana Six were jailed, after they went to the government and told them that they'd been to Afghanistan. There's that poor sucker in Lodi, CA who got entrapped and railroaded, and there's the Liberty City 7, who've had two mistrials so far.

    Anyway, there were dozens, even hundreds of warnings that a major terrorist attack was being planned in the U.S. Bush's response was to cut support to anti-terrorism efforts. Even Cuba sent a warning to the U.S. that something big was coming. Due to the lack of attention and the disruption of the anti-terrorism task force in the FBI, vital clues were missed as field offices were screaming at Washington that something big was in the works.

    It's not Clinton's fault that Bush covered his eyes and ears to the threat.

    So unless they have communists it ain't democracy. I suppose Italy is no longer a democracy either.


    That's a false dichotomy. No one but you has said anything about communists, but please feel free to call a patchwork of mini-dictatorships a democracy.

    How are they responsible for the foreign suicide bombers that target Iraqi citizens?


    If Bush pardoned all the prisoners in the U.S. tomorrow, the crime rate in the U.S. would skyrocket. While Bush didn't commit any of the crimes, he would be responsible for causing the crime wave. As Powell said, "you break it, you own it." We broke Iraq and were unable to put it back together. In any event, the foreign suicide bombers really only represent a small portion of the problem.

    The bigger problem is the complete disruption of everyday life, from the lack of electricity to potable water to health care. The biggest [problem is that crime has exploded in Iraq.

    Oh, so because he stopped gassing them that made him an alright fellow. I thought Kurds were people too Che, or maybe they don't count at all?


    False dichotomy. You claimed that he was gassing them right up until the end of his rule. That was a lie. You are a liar.

    So are folks here in BC. Do we live in a democracy.


    In BC, the people rule. That makes it a democracy.

    Wow, same as the liberals up here. Sounds like they are getting the hang of it.


    Are you seriously claiming that the government of BC is carrying out military strikes on its political opponents?

    Still not seeing any differences between Iraq and Canada.


    Then only god can help you.

    Other people do. Pity, you should.


    Why should I? Because you care?

    Would you? Yes or no, not a hard question.


    No, I'm not going to answer your moronic dichotomy. We were not being taxed at 100% before Bush got Congress to cut taxes.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • The Word of the Day is:

      Dichotomy

      Comment


      • Che: The problem isn't that Bush cut taxes, that was a good thing. It's that he and both parties in Congress refused to cut spending as well.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DinoDoc
          Che: The problem isn't that Bush cut taxes, that was a good thing. It's that he and both parties in Congress refused to cut spending as well.
          Oh please... have you met Congress lately? What made you think that under any party's rule they'd cut spending... especially when the President didn't give a rats ass about cutting spending himself?

          Now, if, say, the President fought for spending decreases at the time, perhaps that may have made it better.

          That and most economists didn't see it as an effective tax stimulus to the economy (didn't target the right areas).
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
            Now, if, say, the President fought for spending decreases at the time, perhaps that may have made it better.
            Might I ask a simple question? Why are you *****ing and moaning at me as if you disagree with a word I said when it seems clear that you do not?
            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

            Comment


            • For the same reason you post your little barbs. Just to **** with people.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • Well it was short and full of words easy to understand. I don't see how he could have misread it.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DinoDoc
                  Might I ask a simple question? Why are you *****ing and moaning at me as if you disagree with a word I said when it seems clear that you do not?
                  Cause I am disagreeing with you. Bush's tax cuts were a disaster because there was no intention by Bush to make up the money elsewhere. The whole point of the Bush tax cuts was to redo the tax code in that way and trust in supply side economics to make up the slack.

                  This wasn't your ordinary stimulus tax cut, as I pointed out using the economists' opinions. This was a supply side attempt to reorder the tax code, while using "economic recovery" rhetoric.

                  Saying "make it better" doesn't = good or ok or even halfway decent.

                  And as che pointed out, how ironic of an objection coming from you.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    Cause I am disagreeing with you.
                    I don't really see where though. Other than the minor point of disliking the form they took which is irrelevent to me at least since I like tax cuts in general. We both seem to agree that there should have been spending cuts to go with the tax cuts as well regardless of form.
                    And as che pointed out, how ironic of an objection coming from you.
                    I usually at least pretend to have a real issue of disagreement with the person's position though.
                    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                    Comment


                    • I don't really see where though.


                      It's quite obvious if you bother to read my posts. In general, I think the scope of Bush's tax cuts were an absolute mistake. A minor, very short tax cut focusing on investment and consumption (ie, capital gains and tax cuts for the middle and lower tax brackets due to expire in 3-5 years of passage) would have been alright.

                      The size and scope of Bush's tax cuts were disastrous. Spending cuts could have made it more palatable, but it would still be a mistake.

                      I don't like tax cuts in general. Only when they make sense and they have the proper form.

                      If you forget you said Bush's cuts were a good thing. I think, all other things being the same, we'd be better off without a tax cut at all rather than Bush's plan.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


                        Cause I am disagreeing with you. Bush's tax cuts were a disaster because there was no intention by Bush to make up the money elsewhere. The whole point of the Bush tax cuts was to redo the tax code in that way and trust in supply side economics to make up the slack.

                        This wasn't your ordinary stimulus tax cut, as I pointed out using the economists' opinions. This was a supply side attempt to reorder the tax code, while using "economic recovery" rhetoric.

                        Saying "make it better" doesn't = good or ok or even halfway decent.

                        And as che pointed out, how ironic of an objection coming from you.
                        I think "disaster" is a strong word. More disastrous than the tax cuts is the simple fact that entitlement costs are being permitted to spiral out of control because no one has the political will to stop it. At the rate we're going, from what I understand, those costs will consume the budget in a generation.

                        That said, future historians are likely to blame Bush for failing to make any progress on that issue (indeed, worsening it with his prescription drug plan). Congress as a whole may or may not deserve more of the blame, but it is far easier to blame one man than 535.

                        (Of course, the American electorate deserve the lion's share of the blame.)
                        "The nation that controls magnesium controls the universe."

                        -Matt Groenig

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                        • Neither party has given a damn about controlling expenditures since the early stages of the "contract with America." And even that simply resulted in a brief pause in deficit spending during an economic boom. Wow, impressive

                          Drastic steps are needed (tax increase + spending cuts in all parts of the budget to create surplusses to start paying down the debt). They won't be taken, because any politician who talks seriously about fiscal responsibility will be crucified.

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                          • We hit that same wall about a decade ago. The inevitable spending cuts were painful.
                            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                            • Yeah, but now things are better. It has to be done, and the sooner the better.

                              -Arrian
                              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Arrian
                                Neither party has given a damn about controlling expenditures since the early stages of the "contract with America."
                                I'd actually put it back to the "welfare and warfare" strategy initiated in the '60s. Otherwise, though, I agree.
                                "The nation that controls magnesium controls the universe."

                                -Matt Groenig

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