"The illusion that is Barack Obama"

[snoopy369]

If you think Nader became a politician to 'help people' you are the one who is rather scary...

[LordShiva]

Really? Hey, thanks

[Arrian]

The everyday, honest, earnest person who runs for office will most likely:

a) be exposed, via scrutiny, to be a liar, hypocrit or have some other fault that will be hammered mercilessly; or
b) actually be clean at first, but quickly become corrupted

I think there are people who really want to serve their country. The vast majority, I'd wager, are in the civil service, the military, or serving in some other unelected capacity.

I think honesty and integrity become rarer and rarer the higher you go up the political food chain. It takes a special breed to get to the top of this particular mountain...

Hey, if you can come up with a political system that manages to get qualified, honest, well-meaning folks into positions of power w/o coersion or other nasty side effects, I'm all ears!

-Arrian

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by snoopy369
If you think Nader became a politician to 'help people' you are the one who is rather scary...

Why did he?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Kidicious


It's a matter of public record that Johnson comtemplated bringing our troups back from Vietnam but told his advisors that it would mean not getting reelected.

How'd that work out for him?

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by Arrian
The everyday, honest, earnest person who runs for office will most likely:

a) be exposed, via scrutiny, to be a liar, hypocrit or have some other fault that will be hammered mercilessly; or
b) actually be clean at first, but quickly become corrupted

I think there are people who really want to serve their country. The vast majority, I'd wager, are in the civil service, the military, or serving in some other unelected capacity.

I think honesty and integrity become rarer and rarer the higher you go up the political food chain. It takes a special breed to get to the top of this particular mountain...

Hey, if you can come up with a political system that manages to get qualified, honest, well-meaning folks into positions of power w/o coersion or other nasty side effects, I'm all ears!

-Arrian

The problem is the two (corporate) parties. You need more choices.

I was thinking how I could explain, then realized somebody else explaining it would be better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw1Aji8FzJc

If you are gonna watch, you should watch all parts, third one is pretty good. It is obviously biased (uploaded by votenader08), but it's more about third parties than Nader.

They point out even in your country changes for the better have happened with the help of third parties, but I wonder if it is possible anymore? Most of the changes they mention (if not all?) were before the time of mass media which has now become corporate media.

Even the billionaire Bloomberg didn't want to run in the end, here is what he said

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/opinion/28mike.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The biggest problem might be the media, and the political gossip and limited discussion on issues.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by tinyp3nis

Why did he?

Because he liked getting his name in print, and because he wanted to get his political message out?

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by snoopy369

Because he liked getting his name in print, and because he wanted to get his political message out?

That can also mean helping people.
I was looking for an answer that would explain why thinking he is running to help people makes me crazy. Maybe you know something I don't?

If you think Nader became a politician to 'help people' you are the one who is rather scary...

edit: typos

[snoopy369]

Because I think Nader likes having his name in print; and he didn't really help people by running (from the liberal point of view, he hurt people quite a bit...)

Also note that he didn't stand a chance, and knew it. That does make a difference, although I don't think it applies to him.

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Because I think Nader likes having his name in print; and he didn't really help people by running (from the liberal point of view, he hurt people quite a bit...)

Also note that he didn't stand a chance, and knew it. That does make a difference, although I don't think it applies to him.

Have you seen the opposing arguments for him not being the spoiler he is made out to be? There are quite many, on top of them if you look at Bush@2000 he really wasn't that much different from Gore back then, sure Bush@200X is different story, especially if you compare to Gore we can imagine but never got to see.
Yes it is obvious he knows about his chances (did you watch the videos)

Also I don't agree with the "he has more ego than others" talk.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I actually think Nader is more genuine about his ideals than the major candidates of the two parties. He hasn't had to compromise them in office for one. Secondly, I think he really does have a very different view of what he wants from society. And third party candidates have, for a long time, wanted the party "closest" to them lose because of them so they would try to drift that way to get those voters.

[Arrian]

I'm all for third parties, tinypeepee. I've voted both Libertarian and Green.

-Arrian

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'm all for third parties, tinypeepee. I've voted both Libertarian and Green.

-Arrian

That's good
Was just answering your question about a better system, I'm not sure if you were asking me but seemed that way.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
The everyday, honest, earnest person who runs for office will most likely:

a) be exposed, via scrutiny, to be a liar, hypocrit or have some other fault that will be hammered mercilessly; or
b) actually be clean at first, but quickly become corrupted

I think there are people who really want to serve their country. The vast majority, I'd wager, are in the civil service, the military, or serving in some other unelected capacity.

I think honesty and integrity become rarer and rarer the higher you go up the political food chain. It takes a special breed to get to the top of this particular mountain...

Hey, if you can come up with a political system that manages to get qualified, honest, well-meaning folks into positions of power w/o coersion or other nasty side effects, I'm all ears!

-Arrian

It's not about the political system. It's about society. If we vote for liars and not honest people we get what we vote for.

I'm not saying an honest person can when in today's political system or in this society with a different system. I'm just saying stop voting for liars.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Because I think Nader likes having his name in print; and he didn't really help people by running (from the liberal point of view, he hurt people quite a bit...)

Also note that he didn't stand a chance, and knew it. That does make a difference, although I don't think it applies to him.

I don't know how honest Nader is for sure, but I don't know of any lies that he's told. But speaking as a liberal I can certainly understand why he wouldn't want the Democrats to win the presidency.