"The illusion that is Barack Obama"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
I expect politicians to have some dirt on them.

Wow! That's probably why they all do. Did it ever occur to you that if we stopped voting for politicians who lied that politicians wouldn't be liars. All the liars would be selling used cars or something like that.

[rah]

Most honest people don't want to be politicians.

We did have a scientist run here and he won quite handily.

But non politicians running is usually quite rare. Which is strange because with just a little money to get the message out they usually do quite well. But by the time they get the little bit of money, they're liars just like the rest.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Arrian
Incidently, I never fell for the whole "I'm different! I'm not like other pols" bit. That's not why I voted for him.

I expect politicians to have some dirt on them. Wezil can shake his head at me all he wants, but I don't feel I have any choice about that. Find me a squeeky clean politician who:

a) wants to run for high office
b) holds positions that are compatible with such a run
c) holds positions I mostly agree with (b and c sometimes cause each other problems )
d) has the connections necessary to run

D is obviously them main problem. By the time a pol is "somebody" they've probably sold their soul so many times they don't even know who owns it anymore.

-Arrian

I agree. What really annoys me about the Obama campaign are all the wide eyed college students and middle aged women who say he reminds them of JFK with his speeches. he's a politician. His hands aren't clean. He has less baggage than someone who has been in office for 20 years, but there are skeletons. Think beyond the speeches. I don't care who you vote for, really, but exercise your mind beyond listening to the rhetoric. He's a new politician. Yeah, no.

I don't believe in hope, I guess, I believe in cynicism.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by rah
Most honest people don't want to be politicians.

Because people won't vote for them. The fact is that as a percentage politicians are more likely to be psychopaths than the average person. We choose psychopaths to lead our country, over and over again.

But non politicians running is usually quite rare. Which is strange because with just a little money to get the message out they usually do quite well. But by the time they get the little bit of money, they're liars just like the rest.

Why weren't they liars in the first place? Maybe they just didn't have a reason to lie yet.

[snoopy369]

Kid, i'd love to only vote for non-liars. The problem is telling the liars from the non-liars... it's really hard.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Because people won't vote for them. The fact is that as a percentage politicians are more likely to be psychopaths than the average person. We choose psychopaths to lead our country, over and over again.

That's rah's point, it's inherent and inevitable. If sociopaths (just sociopaths, not psychopaths which would be too evident) are the only type of people attracted to that line of work, while normal people just tend to go into the private sector, then there is no solution. If 100% of voters decided to vote solely for non-liars, then there would be a ~0% turnout and there would be victors by default. Where would that leave us?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Wow! That's probably why they all do. Did it ever occur to you that if we stopped voting for politicians who lied that politicians wouldn't be liars. All the liars would be selling used cars or something like that.

Everyone's a liar in some regard, Kid.

[-Jrabbit]

Obama is an unusually good orator, thus the Kennedy thing. And after 8 years of Bush turning presidential presentations into a laughingstock, many Americans yearn for a return to dignity in that office, to the point where they'll consider voting for the most liberal candidate we've seen in many years.

[snoopy369]

The ultimate question:

Why do you run for office? It pays poorly, has long hours, and most politicians need to keep working their day job excepting very high level ones (even most state legislators work a real job) or task-oriented folks (ie, assessor).

The answer:
People who want power over others (to a high degree), or people who are willing to be corrupt.

The former are willing to do most anything to get power (or at least do more than most are willing to do), and thus happily lie; the latter obviously will lie.

Hence, only liars will become politicians.

[chequita guevara]

Anyone who thinks they should be President of the United States has a serious ego trip.

[snoopy369]

I would say even stronger:

"Anyone who wants to be POTUS is a power hungry madman (or woman)."

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Everyone's a liar in some regard, Kid.

Lying and lying to get elected as president of a democracy are too different things. Hell, it's a known fact that presidents have continued wars so that they could get elected for another term.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Kid, i'd love to only vote for non-liars. The problem is telling the liars from the non-liars... it's really hard.

Not in this election. They are all liars. Yet probably 50% of americans will vote for one of them.

edit: The other 50% won't vote.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871


That's rah's point, it's inherent and inevitable. If sociopaths (just sociopaths, not psychopaths which would be too evident) are the only type of people attracted to that line of work, while normal people just tend to go into the private sector, then there is no solution. If 100% of voters decided to vote solely for non-liars, then there would be a ~0% turnout and there would be victors by default. Where would that leave us?

I would say that would leave us with a situation where honest people would begin to run for office.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Lying and lying to get elected as president of a democracy are too different things. Hell, it's a known fact that presidents have continued wars so that they could get elected for another term.

Which presidents have extended which wars?