Japan -- Geriatric Society

[The Mad Monk]

Having children is an inherently selfish act.

[Jon Miller]

Considering that otherwise you are a pointless burden on society (well, you could have someone elses children).

JM

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Having children is an inherently selfish act.

QFT

[Arrian]

I happen to agree... and further, I think that it SHOULD be a selfish act. I think that's a good thing. You need to want to be a parent - not out of some feeling of obligation (to family, society, religion, etc), but rather for your self.

Which is why my wife and I are still undecided. We just can't seem to figure it out (which may in and of itself be a no).

-Arrian

[Jon Miller]

I think that people who are responsible and wealthy enough to take care of children owe it to society to have or adopt at least 2.

JM

[Arrian]

Really. We owe it to society, eh? Being parents b/c of some outside obligation strikes me as a great way to be a resentful (and therefore bad) parent.

I can (sort of) see the adoption argument. It's crossed my mind.

Incidently, if you believe that rich/responsible folks are obligated to have or otherwise acquire 2 kids, do you also think that poor/irresponsible folks have an obligation to avoid breeding?

-Arrian

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Arrian
I happen to agree... and further, I think that it SHOULD be a selfish act. I think that's a good thing. You need to want to be a parent - not out of some feeling of obligation (to family, society, religion, etc), but rather for your self.

Which is why my wife and I are still undecided. We just can't seem to figure it out (which may in and of itself be a no).

-Arrian

QFT. Absolutely how I feel (except about the me having kids part, I definitely want to). Selfish is not, necessarily, a bad thing; however, government and morals exist to limit selfishness where it hurts society (ie, overpopulation).

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Arrian
Really. We owe it to society, eh? Being parents b/c of some outside obligation strikes me as a great way to be a resentful (and therefore bad) parent.

I can (sort of) see the adoption argument. It's crossed my mind.

Incidently, if you believe that rich/responsible folks are obligated to have or otherwise acquire 2 kids, do you also think that poor/irresponsible folks have an obligation to avoid breeding?

-Arrian

If you can't take care of a kid, you shouldn't have one.

Society puts alot of effort into you, you owe society for that.

JM
(Note, I am not suggesting to legislate that some people have to have kids and others can't...)

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Considering that otherwise you are a pointless burden on society (well, you could have someone elses children).

JM

What's the basis of that claim?

[Arrian]

Ok, at least you're consistent.

I think the argument works best if you simply say the rich/responsible should adopt (at least until the poor/irresponsible quit having kids). Population growth isn't necessarily a good thing (in fact, I rather think it's a bad thing after a certain point, depending on technology and resources). Taking care of the kids who are in need of care is obviously the selfless thing to do. Creating more kids (when there is a large pool of kids up for adoption) isn't.

Anyway, I know I'm selfish. Everyone is, to one degree or another. We're humans.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

What's wrong with creating more kids as long as you spend the time and energy necessary to make them productive members of society?

[Jon Miller]

Honestly, babies who don't have problems and aren't from foreign cultures are at a premium. You have to wait a long time for one.

Many kids up for adoption have serious issues which I can see being unreasonable for some responsible adults.

Also, it is a natural biological instinct to want to propigate your own genetics... and some of us have good genetics, so I don't consider those who have their own kids to be selfish a priori.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
What's wrong with creating more kids as long as you spend the time and energy necessary to make them productive members of society?

Such kids will be those who support society in the future (for the most part). I really don't understand some of the positions put forward in this thread.

JM

[Jon Miller]

If you are responsible and can train up your kids... then not having kids is akin to throwing your garbage in the nearby lakes and hunting whales...

JM

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
If you are responsible and can train up your kids... then not having kids is akin to throwing your garbage in the nearby lakes and hunting whales...