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Originally posted by DanS
I've been through this with KH. Old hat. Nothing sacred about that growth rate.
I've been through this with KH. Old hat. Nothing sacred about that growth rate.
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It was your proposed exercise.
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You are forgetting about child tax credit.Originally posted by Heraclitus
Dude you are forgetting that everyone pays that tax, now sure childless people pay for things children use, but people with kids pay for those things not only via taxes but directly as well. This means they are worse off for having kids, by quite a bit.
Incentives to be uneducated!This specific tax of mine creates something the childless pay but those with children don't. It would be a simple tax, you would get a deduction for being on social security, for being uneducated, for having one kid.
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Originally posted by Aeson
Incentives to be uneducated!
You are so silly.
Incentives for the uneducated not to have kids.
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez DávilaComment
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Err, if they have enough money to care for the kids and are responsible enough... why do we want the uneducated to not have kids again?
We want most people in countries like the US/europe to have more kids. Not less. Most everyone in the US is very proudctive compared to other countries. Additionally, because education is paid for by the state here, anyone whose parents are responsible and whose parents make enough to take care of them are in the 'productive' set.
Additionally, it is a lot easier to define responsible and being able to afford a kid then it is to define educated.
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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Originally posted by Jon Miller
Err, if they have enough money to care for the kids and are responsible enough... why do we want the uneducated to not have kids again?
We want most people in countries like the US/europe to have more kids. Not less. Most everyone in the US is very proudctive compared to other countries. Additionally, because education is paid for by the state here, anyone whose parents are responsible and whose parents make enough to take care of them are in the 'productive' set.
Additionally, it is a lot easier to define responsible and being able to afford a kid then it is to define educated.
JM
Sorry I assumed people without education do not have the means to support their kids. By education I mean realy basic stuff, people most likley living on social security.
They would still get aid for having kids, but they wouldn't have to pay taxes for not having them (since it would be cruel to take more money from the haves not).Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez DávilaComment
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What is an education?
College degree?
Because plumbers and mechanics/etc all do quite well in the US. And our more productive than many of the college educated.
Even bus drivers do OK.
Honestly, the best thing to do is just increase the tax on the wealthy, and make the child deduction be % instead of a raw number. This would be a bit regressive, but also would make it not such a negative for the wealthy to have children. But honestly, once more, I don't care much about demographics in the US having children. I care far more about people in the US not having children (Whcih can be educated) and only people in countries without access to education having children.
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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I find your position odd.
Why not simply allow more immigration? There are plenty of people who want to get in. Then we can educate them.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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You see immigrants are hard to assimilate. But I think this would be a very viable strategy for the US, since Latin American culture is ultimatley western in origin, America can continue being America even if it becomes bilingual.
The real trick is countries like Japan or those in Europe. These societies are not built on the melting pot mentality, far from it. And they don't have a ready supply of culturaly similar immigrants.
A possible fix for Europe is to stop immigration from Africa and the ME and start working hard on attracting immigrants from central and south America. I mean poor people came to the US in millions from Europe. Why couldn't we sponsor mass migration from Brazil or Mexico.
Sure we'd have more brown & black people, but that was never a problem with me, and I hope it isn't to most Europeans. These people would have Spanish or Pourtugese as their mother tounge, they would come from a culture similar to many of the mediteranean EU countries, they would be Roman Chatolics or Evangelicals. In one generation they could easily start speaking Italian or French (and if they still know their parents language, no prob we knowledge of multiple laguages is a plus in Europe). German or English or Polish within two generations. And they would have no trouble accepting a European identity. The real problem are truly alien cultures that don't want to assimilate and infact try to change the country they are coming into.Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez DávilaComment
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Why not do both?Originally posted by Arrian
I find your position odd.
Why not simply allow more immigration? There are plenty of people who want to get in. Then we can educate them.
-ArrianComment
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Because one doesn't involve trying to get people who don't want children to have them (or penalizing them for not having them)?
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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There's no meaningful difference between a tax incentive or penalty scheme, and if it's economically sound I don't see why not to do it along with immigration.
Note, here I'm not arguing that it is economically sound (that involves the specific numbers involved and a far more detailed analysis than I'm competent to do), just that whether we should do it should be independent of allowing more immigration.Comment
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Originally posted by Jon Miller
We want most people in countries like the US/europe to have more kids. Not less.
Why do you hate Earth?
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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I am for free and open immigration.Originally posted by Arrian
I find your position odd.
Why not simply allow more immigration? There are plenty of people who want to get in. Then we can educate them.
-Arrian
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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What fun is ruining the environment if you don't have lots of kids who will have to suffer through the consequences?Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why do you hate Earth?
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wan's apprentice.Comment
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What is the point of most of humanity living in squalor and disease and famine?
And people who are trying to become industrialized hurt the planet too.
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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