NATO members show how much they value the Alliance

[OneFootInTheGrave]

The funny thing is that Reagan was sane compared to some of his advisers.

it's still the same case with Bush

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Wezil


I asked a very serious question. The answer apparently disturbs you so you dodge instead.

Let's try again NYE. The question isn't that tough.

Was Afghanistan "broken" before we arrived or not?

Before you answer consider that most NATO officials referred to Afghanistan as a "failed state". What say you oh wise one?

I ask you if you feel any obligation to citizens of states we make war upon?

The answer seems obvious, but I have to start somewhere.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by TCO


That was because the Germans were aggressive. But they've had all the fight whipped out of them, now.

Yeah, whatever.

[TCO]

Originally posted by BeBro


Yeah, whatever.

You're still occupied territory.

[BeBMan]

Lies!

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I ask you if you feel any obligation to citizens of states we make war upon?

The answer seems obvious, but I have to start somewhere.

So are you conceding Afghanistan was broken?

A moral obligation? No.

Our foreign aid is finite and there are more deserving recipients than those that attack us.

The problem NYE is the cliches and sound bites being thrown around by supporters of the mission.

"Girls going to school" (not really)
"Bringing Canadian values" (like Sharia, DP, heroin trafic, and our personal favourite - corruption)
"We have to fix what we broke" (We didn't break it)

There is absolutely NO public discourse of substance on the issue. It is a pure propaganda assault.

[Wezil]

KABUL - Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Canadian ambassador Arif Lalani were among the dignitaries forced to take cover Sunday when automatic gunfire erupted during a ceremony marking 16 years since the overthrow of the country's Soviet-backed rule.

Karzai, his cabinet and foreign diplomats who were present - including Arif Lalani, Canada's ambassador to Afghanistan - were all safe, a statement from the presidential palace said.

But it said a local Shiite Muslim leader was killed and nine others, including two parliamentarians, were wounded.

A Taliban spokesman claimed responsibility for attack, saying it had deployed four militants with suicide vests and guns to target the president.

Hundreds of people fled in chaos as shots rang out. Firing appeared to come from ruined houses about few hundred metres from where the VIPs were seated. A live TV broadcast of the ceremony on a parade avenue in Kabul was quickly cut.

Witnesses could also hear heavy weapon fire.

An Associated Press reporter saw President Karzai escorted from scene, surrounded by bodyguards and leaving in one of four black Land Cruisers. He could not get a clear view of the president.

Karzai later appeared on national TV and said some suspects were arrested.

"President Karzai condemns this act and asks for all the people to remain calm," the palace statement said.

Several Western officials confirmed Karzai was unhurt and had returned to the presidential palace. Embassy officials confirmed that both Lalani and U.S. Ambassador William Wood had escaped unharmed.

Karzai, who has led Afghanistan since soon after a U.S.-led invasion ousted the Taliban regime in 2001, has been targeted by assassins before and is constantly shadowed by a phalanx of bodyguards.

Sirajudin, a police officer at the scene, said he saw two people firing AK-47 assault rifles from a house opposite where Karzai was sitting. UN spokesman Aleem Siddique cited a UN diplomat at the scene as saying between three and five people opened up with small-arms fire toward the dignitaries. He confirmed all the foreign dignitaries were safe.

The gunfire erupted as the national anthem ended at ceremonies marking the capture of Kabul from the Soviet-backed government by the mujahedeen in 1992.

In video footage shown live on Afghan TV, two lawmakers who were sitting about 30 metres from Karzai were seen to be hit by the gunfire. One of the men slumped back in his seat, while the other lay on the ground.

People at the ceremony ducked for cover then fled - among them Afghan police and soldiers who were assembled for the pageantry. Karzai had just completed a drive-past in a U.S.-supplied Humvee jeep.

Security forces deployed elsewhere opened fire at the houses where the attackers appeared to be.

Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujaheed said four insurgents launched the attack against Karzai near the national stadium where the event was held.

Mujaheed said the insurgents were wearing suicide vests and carrying AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades to attack Karzai.

There was no immediate report of any suicide bombing.

Mohammad Saleh Saljoqi, a lawmaker at the ceremony, said two rocket-propelled grenades landed near the dignitaries and there was continuous AK-47 fire.

One rocket hit inside the Eid Gah mosque opposite where Karzai was sitting. The second hit when the president had already left, landing about 50 metres away, Saljoqi said.

He said the bullets were fired from the west of the where the officials were sitting.

The attack came despite unprecedented tight security for Sunday's anniversary. For days Kabul was ringed by checkpoints with security forces and intelligence officials searching vehicles. The area where the ceremonies took place had been blocked by troops, tanks and armoured personnel carriers.

The live TV coverage of the assassination attempt will add to the sense of insecurity in the Afghan capital, which has been spared the worst of the violence as fighting has escalated in recent years between Taliban insurgents and NATO and U.S.-led forces, leaving thousands dead.

Karzai's narrowest escape from attack during his tenure as president came in September 2002 when a gunman opened fire at close quarters as he visited the southern city of Kandahar. Three people, including the gunman, died in that attack.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/04/27/5398881-ap.html

The US bodyguards came through for Karzai again. We still have our guy.