I think I could run an airline

[Asher]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Partly. It doesn't help when legacy carriers have to pay 2-3x the salaries the low-cost carriers have to due to the unions.

So bust the unions.

Look at WestJet if you want to see how beautiful a non-union company can be.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Asher

So bust the unions.

Look at WestJet if you want to see how beautiful a non-union company can be.

If only it were that easy Good luck rebuilding an entire airline's workforce, from the mechanics to the stewards, to the pilots.

the data I have on hand is old-2001, but the pilot compensation difference is pretty crazy:

Per month in thousands (delta has a different scale for planes)
Tenure Delta Jet Blue
1 yr 14.5-20 6.2
5 yrs 14.9-20.7 8
10 yrs 15.5-21.5 8

Maintenance is also 2x for the legacies, as well as food expenses

[Asher]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

If only it were that easy Good luck rebuilding an entire airline's workforce, from the mechanics to the stewards, to the pilots.

It's really not that hard, the way the airlines are going now they'll all be out of jobs shortly anyway.

Unions are killing the US automotive industry and the US airline industry, and no one cares.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Asher

Depends to what degree we're talking about anyway. I've got half a dozen people reporting to me right now. And not McDonalds-style reporting, university-degree in a real field people.

I don't even think they make university degrees in my field... though electrical engineering is sure helpfull...sometimes.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Asher
Unions are killing the US automotive industry and the US airline industry, and no one cares.

Actually, it's bad management.

It wasn't the unions who told auto companies to build lots of gas-guzzling SUV and to forget about building hybrids and other ecology-friendly vehicles. It wasn't the unions who told airline companies to skip maintenance and to ignore safety regulations.

Union jobs are middle class jobs.
The middle class are consumers.
Consumer spending is the driving force of the economy.

It shouldn't take a genius to realize we need more union jobs, not fewer. More lower paying jobs mean will end up with the economy of Mexico or China.

[Asher]

Actually, it's bad management.

Seems to me the cost of unions is far higher than the cost of non-unions. The only thing bad about the management was how they let the unions get away with this ****.

[Ming]

There was a time when unions were needed to protect the interests of the workers. That time is long past...

[DanS]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Per month in thousands (delta has a different scale for planes)

Tenure     Delta            Jet Blue
1 yr       14.5-20          6.2 
5 yrs      14.9-20.7        8    
10 yrs     15.5-21.5        8

The question is indeed begged why Delta is paying that kind of money for glorified bus drivers. (No offense to bus drivers.)

[Nugog]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Other than me, how many other people on these boards have been an actual manager, anyway? I doubt it's very many...

[Zkribbler]

Other than me, how many other people on these boards have been an actual manager, anyway? I doubt it's very many...

[Blake]

For your perfect airline, remember to remove humans from the equation. It also might be a good idea to remove the weather and maybe just all of reality to be on the safe side.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher
The real problem is people who only know how to "manage" don't know what they are managing.

I've no problems if somebody in a tech company has an MBA, provided they also have some kind of real, substantive background in that field.

Take a look at the management of Motorola now, or HP under Carly Fiorina if you want a case study.

Again - I certainly believe that a manager should have enough knowledge to understand at least generally what everyone below them is doing. However, simply having that knowledge is far insufficient to managing people. Regardless of Kid's opinion, it is most certainly difficult to get people to do what you want them to do, even once you know what they need to do. Far too many technical people are terrible managers; the challenge is finding the technical people who are also good managers (or the good managers who are also capable technically).

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ming
There was a time when unions were needed to protect the interests of the workers. That time is long past...

Unions reached their peak in the late sixties.

The median wage of Americans (adjusted for inflation) hasn't risen significantly since 1973.

Since 1980, the wealth of America has doubled, but neither the middle class nor the lower class have seen any increase.

Tell me again how we can just sit and wait upon the largess of corporate America to share some of its wealth with us.

[Nugog]

Blake

The planes have got to go as well.




Sheesh this slow connection gets annoying at times.

[Jon Miller]

Managers main point should be to make sure people are doing their jobs, and communicating with eachother.

Jon Miller