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Edit. After reading snoopy's response, below, I see where your error is. See his post.
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Last edited by DanS; April 2, 2008, 15:32.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891 -
He's showing people who live in the city, not work in the city (if it's census data, anyway). The problem with the 'theory' of living near your work in a city is it rarely happens because of factors like 'cost of living', 'neighborhood desirability', etc. I, for example, work in the middle of downtown Chicago. I could pay $500k to $800k for a condo (or equivalent in rent) within 15 minutes, or I could live in the city in a location I can actually afford to eat AND pay rent, and have a ~30m to 60m commute. Or, I could live in the suburbs and take the train into work (or drive if I'm suicidal) for ... still a 30m to 60m commute.<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.Comment
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The problem is that people have divergent preferences. I would end up killing myself if I had an hour-long commute. Large living space, etc. can't make up for needing to drive and wasting 10% of my life going to and from work/school. In some cities, there is nowhere that I could live on my terms. Atlanta is such a city. I suspect LA is too, though, fortunately, I've never tried to live there.Originally posted by snoopy369
He's showing people who live in the city, not work in the city (if it's census data, anyway). The problem with the 'theory' of living near your work in a city is it rarely happens because of factors like 'cost of living', 'neighborhood desirability', etc. I, for example, work in the middle of downtown Chicago. I could pay $500k to $800k for a condo (or equivalent in rent) within 15 minutes, or I could live in the city in a location I can actually afford to eat AND pay rent, and have a ~30m to 60m commute. Or, I could live in the suburbs and take the train into work (or drive if I'm suicidal) for ... still a 30m to 60m commute.
I left Cannes in large part because I worked far away."The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
-Joan RobinsonComment
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This is suspect. LA is very spread out so the odds are your job will be far from your home. Add to that that most people probably commute by car and cars have to stop at semaphores.Originally posted by DanS
According to the Census, Los Angeles has an average commute time of some 29 minutes a day -- i.e., 14.5 minutes each way. Unless you're walking only a short distance to work, an urban setting even with excellent public transportation is much worse. I know that my walk to work is longer, for example.
To emphasize the point, according to the Census, New York City (that wonder of high density) has the highest average commute time in the country -- 38 minutes, or more than 9 minutes longer than LA. On the other hand, Omaha (a mostly suburban city) has an average commute time of 17 minutes, or 12 minutes less than LA's.
Come on guys, let's pick the thinking up a notch.
14.5 minutes in one direction gets you through a just a couple of of blocks in the rush hour. Say semaphore waiting times are 3 minutes, you can only get through 10 in that time (and I think that's optimistic).
That's simply not enough distance for a city as huge as LA. Granted, I've never been there, but it doesn't make sense that people in my city (~ 1 million, rather dense) would have longer commutes than in LA which has 20 times the area. 20 minutes in one direction is considered good time here.
It seems that Angelenos live awfully close to their work.Comment
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I wonder if that daily commute time includes people who don't commute, like children and housewives.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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No. It only includes those 16+ who work outside the home. If you work at home, you aren't included, for example.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I wonder if that daily commute time includes people who don't commute, like children and housewives.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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It appears that those are one-way times instead of round-trip times. My bad. The comparison of suburbs versus city still stands.Originally posted by VetLegion
Granted, I've never been there, but it doesn't make sense that people in my city (~ 1 million, rather dense) would have longer commutes than in LA which has 20 times the area. 20 minutes in one direction is considered good time here.
In any event, cars are very convenient. That's why the vast majority of Americans have them. No waiting for the next bus or the next train. Go precisely where you need to go and park for free in an adjacent lot.Last edited by DanS; April 2, 2008, 17:49.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Cars are convient but the vast majority of Americans don't have any other option because the American government decided in the 1930's to rip out the light rail and to leave only an outdated rump of intracity rail left. Japan and Europe get rail to work very, very well but it requires a lot of up front capital which Republicans keep claiming is a waste. It isn't a waste and, in fact, has very beneficial long term effects. Hell, even places like South Korea, Taiwan, China, and India have better rail systems then we do.
The madness needs to stop and we need to start planning for the future.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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I live five miles from work.Originally posted by DanS
Just because you were suckered into a long commute doesn't mean everybody else was as well.
I am an exception.
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Apologies all. Those appear to be one-way times rather than round-trip times (the tables I was looking at didn't make it clear and indeed, the press release was misleading). Therefore, the average LA commute is 29 minutes each way. The average Ventura County commute is 25 minutes, and so on.
The argument doesn't change, but the numbers do.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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See Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It contains a surprisingly accurate account of the death of the Red Line.Originally posted by Oerdin
Cars are convient but the vast majority of Americans don't have any other option because the American government decided in the 1930's to rip out the light rail ...
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That's mo' betta.Originally posted by DanS
Apologies all. Those appear to be one-way times rather than round-trip times (the tables I was looking at didn't make it clear). Therefore, the average LA commute is 29 minutes each way.
If you'd have pointed a gun at me and made me guess, I'd have guessed an average of about a 34-minute commute each way.
A few people can walk to work, but hoards travel an hour or more...especially those living in the Inland Empire or the Lancaster/Palmdale area.
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Korea's rail system is excellent. They let you drink beer on the trainsOriginally posted by Oerdin
Cars are convient but the vast majority of Americans don't have any other option because the American government decided in the 1930's to rip out the light rail and to leave only an outdated rump of intracity rail left. Japan and Europe get rail to work very, very well but it requires a lot of up front capital which Republicans keep claiming is a waste. It isn't a waste and, in fact, has very beneficial long term effects. Hell, even places like South Korea, Taiwan, China, and India have better rail systems then we do.
The madness needs to stop and we need to start planning for the future.
Stop Quoting BenComment
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Are those commuting times for people living in the city or people living in the metropolitan area? (The former would be meaningless.)"The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
-Joan RobinsonComment
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Divergent preferences indeedOriginally posted by Victor Galis
The problem is that people have divergent preferences. I would end up killing myself if I had an hour-long commute. Large living space, etc. can't make up for needing to drive and wasting 10% of my life going to and from work/school. In some cities, there is nowhere that I could live on my terms. Atlanta is such a city. I suspect LA is too, though, fortunately, I've never tried to live there.
I left Cannes in large part because I worked far away.
Many people - based on commute times, I'd suggest most people - are able to accept a long commute if it means a better neighborhood, better schools, etc. for their families. My GF's brother lives 70 miles from work, in order to have a house where his kids can go to the top public schools in Kansas City. He makes tons of money, could live closer if he wanted - but the school and the neighborhood is worth it to him, and is worth it to many people (although 70 miles is a bit of an extreme in my experience).
<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.Comment
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