I Have A Newfound Respect For Gays

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
But don't you think that public displays of homosexuality might invite sexual politics back at base and in the field that have absolutely no place in the army? Regulations are one thing...reality is another. And racism, and sexism have been overcome, but these are psychological problems -- sexual attraction is innate in everyone, and will never go away or be 'overcome.'

Good Point - and the same can be said for heterosexual attraction as well, especially now that women are assigned throughout the military structure. This is why the military has a policy of no PDA (public display of affection) while in uniform.

So a man and a woman (while both in uniform) cannot by regulation kiss or even hold hands (PDA policy).

Once the man and woman are off duty and out of uniform, public display is permissible and occurs quite frequently.

OK, fine.

Now take a man and a man (or woman and woman, if you will) (while both in uniform) they too cannot by regulation kiss or even hold hands (PDA policy).

Once the man and man are off duty and out of uniform, public display is STILL forbidden. If they are caught, they are thrown to the wolves (their careers ruined and a dishonorable discharge usually follows).

This is what I had to live with for my 20-year career - the constant worry that "they" would find out and totally ruin my life. Thank God, I survived it all. But the fact still remains - IS IT RIGHT?!?

I had to live a double-life for over 20 years. Can any of you do that? Would any of you be willing to do it? COULD any of you do it?

Do I suspect that in my various assignments, my commanders suspected that I was gay? Of course. But I was a damned good Analyst and performed my job way above the standards...so they looked the other way...they didn't want to loose a vital key to their operations - me. As long as I kept my nose clean and "kept my hand out of the cookie jar" (if you will) all was well.

In all of my assignments I was well respected and sorely missed once I had to move on. (and I missed them as well)

I have to admit, even having to live that double-lifestyle; I learned a lot from the military and they helped me to grow. Being stationed in Europe for 15 years really opened my eyes to human nature in general - we are all the same.

Do I miss the military, even with it's anti-gay policies?? Oh yes.

It was 20 years of my life after all.

[Wiglaf]

That is a high quality post. I am under the impression though that fraternizing with other soldiers or army workers whether on duty or off duty, gay or straight, is frowned upon in the military.

You can see why an all-straight fighting force of men would accomplish this most effectively. But if there is a reasonable way for gays to be gay in their private life but not in the army then go for it.

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
That is a high quality post.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I am under the impression though that fraternizing with other soldiers or army workers whether on duty or off duty, gay or straight, is frowned upon in the military.

No. It only becomes an issue when the person you are "seeing" or dating" is within either party's direct chain of command. If one will have to (or would have to)give the other an order - then there is a problem (both on and off duty).

Originally posted by Wiglaf
You can see why an all-straight fighting force of men would accomplish this most effectively.

No, I still do not see it. Men are still, men (Straight or Gay).

There is no way to totally alleviate gays from the military. Gays have been in the military since the dawn of mankind, and will continue to be into the future. The issue at hand is for all service members to be treated equally.

Originally posted by Wiglaf
But if there is a reasonable way for gays to be gay in their private life but not in the army then go for it.

Been there, done that. Does not work (Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue)

If you notice, the actual regulation is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue - this last caveat has been overlooked by the media and the military as well.

The "Don't Pursue" caveat was placed to curb the military from performing "witch-hunts" for gays within their ranks...it failed miserably. The military, in their investigations, would root-out suspected homosexuals and then use the excuse: "Well, so-and-so stated this, so they talked and we had to close the case"

This policy is a FARSE. It does not work.

The military membership is not homophobic. The Government leadership is. You might have Generals stating that gays in the military will destroy us from within...but down in the trenches, soldiers consider themselves as equals and for the most part, they could give a damn about who is or is not gay - they just want to get the job done, stay alive, and get back home again.

[Dracon II]

Wiglaf... have you ever heard of the sacred band of Thebes?

[Wittlich]

Exactly my point Dracon

We were here in the past. We are here in the present. We will be here in the future as well.

... but will we be accepted as equals just the same?

[classical_hero]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


Take a lesson in what an anagram is, and report back. I am straight as an arrow, and simply cannot comprehend sex in other places that have been reported on the internet.

You know exactly what I was saying. Now can't you take a joke?

[Ecthy]

Incredible how Asher uses his DL to check out Wittlich's gayness. And how he uses that DL to come up with all the dumb arguments to see how they work and to refine them for later use with his regular login.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Dracon II
Wiglaf... have you ever heard of the sacred band of Thebes?

How well do you understand Greek homosexuality? Trust me, most Greeks would find currently acceptable practices in the gay community to be disgusting and effeminate.

Being a catamite was viewed by Greeks as one of the most shameful things a man could ever do (a prejudice that Plato has Socrates take advantage of in the Gorgias.

It amuses me that anyone would want to claim anything good about Greek homosexuality, since most of it was paedophilic.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
This is ridiculous, weren't you in the army? The odds of you being gay are minimal. I am tired of people feigning homosexuality to win arguments or sympathy, it is a dead end.

Sorry, I can back up Wittlich's story about gays being in the military already, the Navy anyway. It did seem like a lot of them compared to society as a whole.

[Colonâ„¢]

I'm pissed too. Why is it that it's perfectly fine for women not to call/message/whatever when they said they would, while it's a capital offense for men to do so?

[chequita guevara]

Funny thing about most women, they don't like their boyfriends to trash talk their friends.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Asher

3) No monthly bleeding

Originally posted by Mr. Garrison

Sorry Wendy I don't trust anything that bleeds for three days and doesn't die.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by snoopy369
If Asher is an example, Wiglaf would certainly be better off with men... However i suspect that, male or female, 100% Pure Wiglaf can be very startling either way

I think we need to merge Wiglaf and Slowwhand into a superhuman. Add in Pekka, and you'd have the perfect man.

Thoughts?

Here's another one I almost missed. AGAIN, I get sucked into something that has nothing to do with me. I didn't do anything, say anything. Hell.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Kidicious
What makes you think gays would put up with your **** Wiglaf?

My advice to you is to find stupider people to date.

[unscratchedfoot]

What kind of closet were you in? Like a broom closet or one with a bin full of stinky laundry in it?