Obama's got 7 points on Hillary +- 4.5

[Ramo]

Controversial or critical of public policy = racist?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo
That's all premised on the idea that Wright regularly peppered his sermons with racial invective.

Why was he disinvited by the Obama campaign from his presidential announcement speech in February 2007 if he was unaware of statements like those videotaped and others?

Seriously we seem to be asked to choose between two narratives. Either he:

1. attended a church for two decades that featured a radical minister preaching a seemingly separatist and occasionally anti-American “Black Value System” (which curiously, was scrubbed from the church’s web site over the weekend), considered Wright a mentor, was married by him, has his children baptized by him, and added him in an official capacity to his Presidential campaign (though in a largely ceremonial role), without ever really knowing anything about him or his beliefs, or;
2. Barack was aware of Wright’s pronouncements and beliefs and agreed with him enough that he was a member of Wright’s congregation for 20 years, only to then see Obama threw Wright “under the bus” when those beliefs became a threat to Obama’s presidential campaign.

Which do you consider most likely?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Elok
What odds are they giving in Vegas? That's the most accurate prediction, methinks.

This is probably right....but scary.

[Ramo]

Why was he disinvited by the Obama campaign from his presidential announcement speech in February 2007 if he was unaware of statements like those videotaped and others?

The first thing that a Presidential campaign does is opposition research on the candidate.

Which do you consider most likely?

What got Wright thrown under the bus was not that Wright is very critical of public policy or that his church is Afrocentric.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why was he disinvited by the Obama campaign from his presidential announcement speech in February 2007 if he was unaware of statements like those videotaped and others?

Seriously we seem to be asked to choose between two narratives. Either he:

1. attended a church for two decades that featured a radical minister preaching a seemingly separatist and occasionally anti-American “Black Value System” (which curiously, was scrubbed from the church’s web site over the weekend), considered Wright a mentor, was married by him, has his children baptized by him, and added him in an official capacity to his Presidential campaign (though in a largely ceremonial role), without ever really knowing anything about him or his beliefs, or;
2. Barack was aware of Wright’s pronouncements and beliefs and agreed with him enough that he was a member of Wright’s congregation for 20 years, only to then see Obama threw Wright “under the bus” when those beliefs became a threat to Obama’s presidential campaign.

Which do you consider most likely?

Obama practicing "politics as usual" *GASP*!!! It cannot be!!!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ramo
What got Wright thrown under the bus was not that Wright is very critical of public policy....

I never claimed otherwise. It's his anti-American and racial seperatist rhetoric that got him thrown under the bus. I just find it hard to believe that Obama expects us to swallow that after a 20 year relationship with the man and giving him an official role in his campaign that he's shocked, just shocked to learn about him and his beliefs.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Obama practicing "politics as usual" *GASP*!!! It cannot be!!!

I'm tired of politics as usual. - Oprah Winfrey

[Ramo]

I never claimed otherwise. It's his anti-American and racial seperatist rhetoric that got him thrown under the bus. I just find it hard to believe that Obama expects us to swallow that after a 20 year relationship with the man and giving him an official role in his campaign that he's shocked, just shocked to learn about him and his beliefs.

1. Anti-American is a loaded word. No doubt that there's a lot that you'd find anti-American that I'd find innocuous. There are also criticisms of American policy that I would disagree with, but not enough to end an important relationship over.
2. I don't see any evidence that Wright believes in "separatism," given that there are white pastors at his own church...

As I was saying, there are a handful of comments that Obama saw as beyond the pale, and caused him to dump Wright (i.e. the AIDS comment or the tone of the 9/11 speech). There's no evidence that Obama heard them before his campaign started.

[Ramo]

Regarding the "black values system" business, I'll let Obama address that:

“People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend’s voice up into the rafters….And in that single note – hope! – I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion’s den, Ezekiel’s field of dry bones. Those stories – of survival, and freedom, and hope – became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn’t need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish – and with which we could start to rebuild.”

Looks more like self-respect than separatism.

[DinoDoc]

There's no evidence that Obama heard them before his campaign started.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Explain to me using simple words because I obviously can't undertand otherwise how one can have such a close relationship with someone and yet not know anything about the man or his beliefs.

[Ramo]

Have you personally asked all of your friends about the origin of AIDS?

I had no idea that's what defines one's belief system.

[DinoDoc]

I'm sure that if my close friend said anything that stupid in front of a large group of people, I'd here about it. I also know the beliefs of my friends.

I had no idea that's what defines one's belief system.

Are you seriously that myopic as to think the AIDs comment is the only one we're talking about here?

[Ramo]

I'm sure you're as busy as Obama as well.

And it's entirely possible that Wright felt more guarded about his opinions when speaking with Obama, given his cosmopolitan and biracial background, relative youth, and education. I know that the scope of my conversations vary widely among different cliques of friends.

[Ramo]

Are you seriously that myopic as to think the AIDs comment is the only one we're talking about here?

It's the only one that's truly reprehensible. The 9/11 comments were more problematic in timing and tone than anything else.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Ramo
Controversial or critical of public policy = racist?

I haven't seen a clip, perhaps you could post one, where Wright is criticizing America without resorting to racist remarks. I think its a difficult argument to present that the two aren't linked in Wright's own mind.