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Obama's got 7 points on Hillary +- 4.5

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  • #31
    Obama's point is that the few clips floating around on youtube aren't representative of Wright's sermons.

    And that's an absurd idea, as far as elementary logic goes. Even if he did regularly make racist remarks, that would hardly imply that any public policy criticism that he makes must be racist. That situation is almost invariably not the case, in fact.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ramo
      1. Anti-American is a loaded word.
      ... that is completely appropriate in this context

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      • #33
        Maybe Wright is right about some things.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Ramo
          It's the only one that's truly reprehensible. The 9/11 comments were more problematic in timing and tone than anything else.
          We're also not talking about what you find reprehensible because if it were just one comment that is at issue here. Obama could credibly say that he didn't know. Sadly for him the voters find more that just Wright's comment on the origin of AIDS to be offensive.
          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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          • #35
            There are literally a handful of comments that are at issue. Your argument isn't bolstered when we go from one to a handful, and again the key thing is with the 9/11 sermon is timing and tone.

            ... that is completely appropriate in this context
            The context is what one sees regularly in Wright's sermons. It may be the case, but no evidence has been presented to that effect.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

            Comment

            • #36
              Good God man. Seriously, WTF? There was an ABC News investigation of dozens of his sermons finding a long history of this stuff. I mentioned this in the other thread and even linked to it.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

              Comment

              • #37
                "This stuff" also includes innocuous nonsense dredged up by right wingers. For instance, he went to Libya to successfully negotiate a hostage release, and one of your articles presented that as a terrible, anti-American thing to do. He thinks that three-strikes laws are a terrible injustice? ZOMGF! I like the fact that you mentioned "dozens" because what ABC did was condense "dozens" of supposedly terribly anti-American sermons into exactly the same few quotes that have been marked by everyone else as particularly controversial. Completely ridiculous articles.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ramo
                  Obama's point is that the few clips floating around on youtube aren't representative of Wright's sermons.

                  And that's an absurd idea, as far as elementary logic goes. Even if he did regularly make racist remarks, that would hardly imply that any public policy criticism that he makes must be racist. That situation is almost invariably not the case, in fact.
                  And yet clips of political sermons by Wright not tinged with racism are not available from what I've seen. Feel free to post a link.


                  What I find absurd is the notion that Obama was completely oblivious to Wright's racist remarks in church. And if he wasn't oblivious, if he had any integrity, he either would have left the church or attempted to change it from the inside.

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Ramo
                    I'm sure you're as busy as Obama as well.

                    And it's entirely possible that Wright felt more guarded about his opinions when speaking with Obama, given his cosmopolitan and biracial background, relative youth, and education. I know that the scope of my conversations vary widely among different cliques of friends.
                    That's interesting, usually people are more open about their prejudices behind closed doors with a friend than in front of an audience of a couple hundred.

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                    • #40
                      Think about it for a second. How many people on the interwebs are interested in watching something controversial from Wright? How many are interested in watching something non-controversial, probably pretty boring sermons? When was the last time you watched a sermon on the internet? From a preacher that you're not very familiar with?

                      Totally ridiculous argument...
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        The Pastor at the church I frequent has said many things I disagree with. He also says many things I agree with. Despite some things (like the evils of Harry Potter, I don't think he has even read Harry Potter, but has just read some religious right complaint about it) that I disagree with, I still haven't said anything because I am just one member and I agree with the majority of what is preached (especially the important bits, which are about religion and not politics).

                        Oh, and this pastor Wright must not be very popular if the only sermons he has on the web are these. There are lots of pastors of my denomination who have much smaller churchs then Wright does (I beleive) and still are on the web.

                        Jon Miller
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ramo
                          Think about it for a second. How many people on the interwebs are interested in watching something controversial from Wright? How many are interested in watching something non-controversial, probably pretty boring sermons? When was the last time you watched a sermon on the internet? From a preacher that you're unfamiliar with?

                          Totally ridiculous argument...
                          In other words, you don't have anything, eh?

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            The way something like youtube works is that you can rank by number of views, or ordered in time. For both categories, the same few sermons that caused the controversy would have to be waded through to find anything else. That guarantees this search to be something of a pain.

                            Can you find a sermon that isn't one of the few that has caused the controversy? If your claim is correct, then those sermons are guaranteed to have something racist, right?
                            Last edited by Ramo; March 18, 2008, 14:47.
                            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                            -Bokonon

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Ramo
                              The way something like youtube works is that you can rank by number of views, or ordered in time. For both categories, the same few sermons that caused the controversy would have to be waded through to find anything else. That guarantees this search to be something of a pain.

                              Can you find a sermon that isn't one of the few that has caused the controversy? If your claim is correct, then those sermons are guaranteed to have something racist, right?
                              I assumed that Obama supporters would have information out there readily available. Its not like this just popped up, its been lingering for a year.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                As an atheist, I would obviously have a number of non-controversial sermons from the pastor of a candidate that I support stored on my hard drive.

                                Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that we're electing the president of a country instead of a seminary...
                                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                                -Bokonon

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