Intolerant Jewish fundamentalists suck.

[Elok]

Maybe Jews are really good at being on the receiving ends of genocides, not so good at dishing 'em out?

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Therefore the description of a jewish invasion of a country is grossly incorrect.

WTF ?

You took much more territory in 48 than what was assigned to you.

Didn't you guys even murder the UN official commissioned to apply the UN peace resolutions ?

[Zoid]

Yes, Folke Bernadotte. But that was jewish terrorists freedom fighters, The Stern Gang. (of which Yitzhak Shamir, later PM of Israel was member). Another gang of "freedom fighters", Irgun (led by Menachem Begin, also later PM of Israel) killed 91 people and injured 45 in the King David Hotel bombing two years earlier. They also killed several other people and carried out attacks on the british troops. Not that unsimilar to todays palestinian attacks...

[Heraclitus]

Its ok because they have their own country now.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
WTF ?
You took much more territory in 48 than what was assigned to you.

we took more land than was assigned to us.
land != country.

Also it isn't exactly like we had much choise, having been attacked from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, and having Iraqi forces performing commando raids.

So we conquered more than was allocated, in a defensive war.

Didn't you guys even murder the UN official commissioned to apply the UN peace resolutions ?

He was probably murdered by the stern gang.
Something that has been widely criticised by the Yishuv. Unlike certain liberation movements, the Israeli mainstream has ostracised the more radical offspring and disarmed them.

[Az]

Do the Jewish fundies make up enough of Israeli population to make that much of a difference or are they having 20 children and swamping the rest of the Jews as well? That doesn't bode well at all.

There are a significant minority, probably about 10 percent of the total population. ( the muslims are 18%).

in short, with current demographic trends continuing, Israel will never have a muslim majority.

It will still become a ****hole, just like it would've become if the muslims would be the majority.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Zoid
Another gang of "freedom fighters", Irgun (led by Menachem Begin, also later PM of Israel) killed 91 people and injured 45 in the King David Hotel bombing two years earlier. They also killed several other people and carried out attacks on the british troops. Not that unsimilar to todays palestinian attacks...

That was a perfectly legitimate military target:
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel

During the British Mandate, the southern wing of the hotel was turned into a British administrative and military headquarters.

And every logical precaution was taken to avoid loss of life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

After placing the bombs, the Irgun men quickly escaped and detonated a small explosive in the street outside the hotel to keep passers-by away from the area. The Arab workers in the kitchen were told to flee and they did.[2]

A warning message was delivered to the telephone operator of the King David Hotel before the attack and also delivered to the French consulate and the Palestine Post newspaper.

[...]
The British authorities denied for many years that there had been a warning at all, but the leaking of the internal police report on the bombing during the 1970s proved that a warning had indeed been received.

[...]

The French Consulate did open their windows from fear of a possible blast, and the operator of the Palestine Post called the police after the warning. [n]When the bombing occurred, there were already several reporters in the area because of the leaked warning.[/b]

as anyone with half a brain (zoid, I hope you're included) can easily see - this is totally and utterly different from the actions of Hamas, PIJ or Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, both in the target selection, and in the obvious intent to kill as many citizens as possible.

Face it, chump, your best example of Jewish "terrorism" is a perfectly legitimate guerilla attack against a military administration center, in which every meaningful effort was made to reduce loss of life.

[DinoDoc]

Was Deir Yassin a legitimate military target? Was every meaningful effort taken on the part of Irgun to reduce the loss of life?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Was Deir Yassin a legitimate military target?

Yes.
Deir Yassin was a controlling point on the road to Jerusalem, the control of which was needed to assure safety of travel to the capitol.

Also, Deir Yassin was sprawling with Iraqi militia, and the gunfight that ensued had taken the lives of 4 Irgun fighters and left 41 injured.

from wikipedia:

Villager fire inflicted heavy casualties and drove off the Irgun. The Lehi units advance stopped at the town's center where they were only holding the eastern parts. The attacker's fighting capability matched their progress, weapons failed to work, a few tossed hand-grenades without pulling the plug, and a Lehi unit commander, Amos Keynan, was wounded by his own men.[21]

While both Irgun and Lehi commanders had anticipated many residents would flee, and the remaining would surrender after token resistance, both groups of Jewish assaulters, entering the town from different sides, immediately encountered fierce volleys of Arab rifle fire.

Irgun deputy commander Michael Harif, one of the first to enter Deir Yassin, later recalled how, early in the battle, "I saw a man in khaki run ahead. I thought he was one of us, I ran after him and told him, 'Move ahead to that house!' Suddenly he turned, pointed his weapon at me and fired. He was an Iraqi soldier. I was wounded in the leg".[20] Patchiah Zalivensky of Lehi recalled that among the Arab soldiers killed by his unit was a Yugoslavian Muslim officer.[22]

The villagers sniper fire from higher positions in the west contained effectively the attack, especially from the mukhtar's (= mayor's) house. Some Lehi units went for help from the Haganah's Camp Schneller in Jerusalem.[23]

Intense Arab firepower caused the assaulters' advance into Deir Yassin to be very slow. Reuven Greenberg reported later that "the Arabs fought like lions and excelled at accurate sniping". He added that "[Arab] women ran from the houses under fire, collected the weapons which had fallen from the hands of Arab fighters who had been wounded, and brought them back into the houses".[24] In certain cases, after storming a house, dead Arab women were found with guns in their hands, a sign they had taken part in the battle.[25]

Ezra Yachin recalled, [n]"To take a house, you had either to throw a grenade or shoot your way into it.[/n] If you were foolish enough to open doors, you got shot down — sometimes by men dressed up as women, shooting out at you in a second of surprise".[26]

Briefings before the battle had stated that most of the houses in Deir Yassin had wooden doors, so, while trying to storm them, the assaulters were surprised to discover the doors were made of iron, leaving no recourse but to blow them open with powerful explosives, killing and wounding some inhabitants. The Lehi forces slowly advanced house by house.[27]

Meanwhile, the Irgun soldiers on the other side of the village, were having a very difficult time. By 7:00 a.m., discouraged by the Arab resistance and their own increasing casualties, Irgun commanders relayed a message to the Lehi camp that they were seriously considering retreating from the town. Lehi commanders relayed back that they had already entered the village and expected victory soon.

The large number of wounded was a big problem for the guerillas: they had to be evacuated but if they did they could be fired upon. Meret called the Magen David Adom station for an ambulance that came to the battle area. The attackers took beds out of the houses, laid the wounded on them and ordered the inhabitants of the village, including women and old people, to carry the beds to the ambulance and to screen them. They believed the Arabs would not shoot their own people, which however they did.[28]

The Irgun quickly arranged to receive a supply of explosives from their base in Givat Shaul, and started blasting their way into house after house. In certain instances, the force of the explosions collapsed whole parts of houses, burying Arab soldiers as well as civilians who were still inside.

In numerous instances Arabs emerged from the houses and surrendered; over 100 were taken prisoner by day's end. At least two Haganah members on the scene reported the Lehi repeatedly using a loudspeaker to implore the residents to surrender.[22][29]

In certain cases Arabs pretending to surrender revealed hidden weapons and shot at their would-be Jewish captors, according to the testimony of Yehoshua Gorodenchik.[30] Benny Morris, has characterized Gorodenchik's testimony as confused.[31]

At about 10:00 am a sizeable Palmach unit from the Haganah arrived. They brought an armored vehicle and a two-inch mortar.[32] The mortar was fired three times at the mukhtar's house which silenced its snipers. The Palmach unit managed to clear the village of serious resistance and Lehi officer David Gottlieb saw the Palmach accomplish "in one hour what we could not accomplish in several hours."[33]

Was every meaningful effort taken on the part of Irgun to reduce the loss of life?

Given that it was a fierce site of close-range urban combat, and performed by two inexperienced groups - no not every meaningful effort was taken.

But I think it is easily seen if you read the full wikipedia entry that this is an atrocious battle, but not a massacre per se.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


He was probably murdered by the stern gang.
Something that has been widely criticised by the Yishuv. Unlike certain liberation movements, the Israeli mainstream has ostracised the more radical offspring and disarmed them.

You mean like putting them in charge of the entire country?

[Dinner]

Face it Zoid. You got served.

[Zoid]

Are you high, Oerdin?

[Dinner]

That's it. Follow the Bush school and deny reality.

[Zoid]

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

[Dinner]

Now you are really imitating Bush. Claiming you have a special reality unconstrained by mire facts.