Intolerant Jewish fundamentalists suck.

[Zoid]

Yes, it's a happier place. And there's free pretzels!

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Also it isn't exactly like we had much choise, having been attacked from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, and having Iraqi forces performing commando raids.

Yes, you obviously had no choice but to annex territory.

You had no choice but to rearm during the various cease-fires.

You also had no choice but to refuse peace proposals, when you understood that the tide of the war was turning in your favor and that you would annex more land anyway.

So we conquered more than was allocated, in a defensive war.

Excellent call, settling new land and expelling the existing population is a "defensive" war.

You wanted a pure Jewish state, and you were prepared to wage a war for it since the beginning. That's why you turned against the British. That's also why you assassinated Bernadotte, to show your determination to annex land without interference from foreign states.

He was probably murdered by the stern gang.
Something that has been widely criticised by the Yishuv. Unlike certain liberation movements, the Israeli mainstream has ostracised the more radical offspring and disarmed them.

Yes, "disarmed" as in receiving judicial absolution and being redeployed to other combat units.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Now you are really imitating Bush. Claiming you have a special reality unconstrained by mire facts.

No, he's quoting Adam Savage from MythBusters. So where's my cookie, Zoid?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Yes.
Deir Yassin was a controlling point on the road to Jerusalem, the control of which was needed to assure safety of travel to the capitol.

Jerusalem was not intended by the partition plan to be part of either state to be formed.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Elok


No, he's quoting Adam Savage from MythBusters. So where's my cookie, Zoid?

Here you go

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Yes.
Deir Yassin was a controlling point on the road to Jerusalem, the control of which was needed to assure safety of travel to the capitol.

Also, Deir Yassin was sprawling with Iraqi militia, and the gunfight that ensued had taken the lives of 4 Irgun fighters and left 41 injured.

from wikipedia:

Funny how you failed to include the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

Oh, and in the interest of keeping you to the standards you like to set when the entry in Wikipedia disagree with your points,

This article or section uses citations that are either broken or outdated.
This article or section uses citations that link to broken or outdated sources, and are deemed unreliable. Please improve the article or discuss this issue on the talk page. Help on using footnotes is available. This article has been tagged since October 2007.
The references in this article would be clearer with a different or consistent style of citation, footnoting, or external linking.
The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.(December 2007)
Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Zoid


Here you go

OMG that is teh generous.

[Zoid]

I'm a generous guy

[Elok]

Yes, thank you, Zoid. You may now continue your discussion

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Zoid
You mean like putting them in charge of the entire country?

Yes, it is well known that Ben Gurion put Begin in charge of the country.

To claim that the Irgun or Stern gang leaders were served nobility and high status proves a huge lack of understanding of Israeli history and politics and serves to prove again that you have no clue what you're on about.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Yes, you obviously had no choice but to annex territory.

obviously we should have returned it to our peaceful neighbors...

You had no choice but to rearm during the various cease-fires.

yes, because obviously had we not rearmed that would have proved our peaceful intentions and brought peace and harmony...

You also had no choice but to refuse peace proposals, when you understood that the tide of the war was turning in your favor and that you would annex more land anyway.

what peace proposals were on the table in 1948?

you're making a joke if you're suggesting that Israel was violently ignoring a viable peaceful solution.

And if you're not suggesting that, then I see no reason to criticize Israel's rearming, and tactical use of cease fires, that offered no change on the strategic level of things - Israel was still being attacked.

Are you suggesting that once we worn out the invading arab armies, we should have stayed put, hoping they learnt their lesson?

Or... like... maybe, we should have expected that the conflict would last some 50 years, and improved our border position?

Excellent call, settling new land and expelling the existing population is a "defensive" war.

See comments above.

If you're in for point scoring, you're out of luck.

Increasing your security borders as a tactical means to sustain defendability and expelling disloyal population that rioted and performed acts of aggression (since 1947!), is obviously evil and misguided. You would have handled it better

You wanted a pure Jewish state, and you were prepared to wage a war for it since the beginning.

Clearly we achieved it, as we have absolutely no minorities in Israel, and we have slaughtered every arab Israeli that was born since 1948.

Oh wait...

That's why you turned against the British. That's also why you assassinated Bernadotte, to show your determination to annex land without interference from foreign states.

The simplification of complex political systems to make a baseless accusation stick does not suit you well.

Yes, "disarmed" as in receiving judicial absolution and being redeployed to other combat units.

Disarmed as in being dispersed and having the political center broken, and waging serious defemation campaigns and internal-spying against them, yes.

You're welcome to read about Shin Bet's following of former Irgun members, and their smear campaigns against Begin, at the direction of Ben Gurion.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap
Funny how you failed to include the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

Obviously it was an evil plot to stop you from being better informed.

I failed miserable, having under appreciated your google abilities.


Or - maybe I simply forgot to paste the link (like I did in previous posts, all from wiki), and you built a huge theory around it.

Oh, and in the interest of keeping you to the standards you like to set when the entry in Wikipedia disagree with your points,

I sincerely expected that you would refrain from making this point, since the bias is the entire article is most definitely NOT in my favor.

I could quote the Jewish Library On-Line, if you'd like.

p.s. I think the editors criticism of sources has mostly to do with quotes of random people, such as

Ayish Zeidan, a teenager, known as Haj Ayish:-

"We heard shooting. My mother did not want us to look out of the window. I fled with my sister, but my mother and my other sisters could not make it. They hid in the cellar for four days and then ran away". He said he never believed that more than 110 people had died at Deir Yassin and that Arab leaders exaggerated the atrocities. "There had been no rape. The Arab radio at the time talked of women being killed and raped, but this is not true. I believe that most of those who were killed were among the fighters and the women and children who helped the fighters."[51]