New round of NATO expansion.

[Patroklos]

They also pissed on the allies that are there. Might not have made the news in the US but it had us saying "WTF!?"

There is a difference between "pissed" on and constuctive critisim. In case you haven't noticed, our allies have been heaping unconstructive critism on us for years

And as to Che's assertion that we rejected offers of help, untrue. We rightly decided to conduct the initial invasion/occupation ourselves because we had all the assets on hand with superior capability to do so. That was the right decision, and it was made with everyone knowing that all parties expected/agreed to help in the aftermath. So more accuately, we simple divided the responsibilities to more accurately reflect the capabilities of the nations involved.

[PLATO]

The entire idea in the west that wars should be all clean and humane is ludicrous. War should be something so vile and terrible that it is to be avoided if at all possible. We have made war so clean and antiseptic that our NATO allies don't want to get involved in one if they are going to lose any troops.

Reminds me of A Taste of Armageddon

[Heraclitus]

Good observation.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos

And America itself has always been bigger, your point? The simple fact is that America is the senior partner for the same reason it was in WWII, it provides the bulk of the forces due to its size and resources, and that is it.

America is not bigger than Western Europe. They have 1.5 times the population that we have and constitute a significantly larger proportion of the global economy. We ought to be their ***** rather than the other way around.

[Dinner]

The Ukraine and Georgia are not candidates for expansion at this time but supposedly both are asking NATO to define exactly what steps they would have to achieve in order to become members. Apparently their governments would like to join NATO in order to provide security against any possible future Russian actions.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


America is not bigger than Western Europe. They have 1.5 times the population that we have and constitute a significantly larger proportion of the global economy. We ought to be their ***** rather than the other way around.

By that logic The netherlands should be Africas ***** because both it's economy and population are much larger.

IIRC western europes economy is about the same size as or a bit smaller than the US economy. It's only larger if you broaden your definition of western europe to include nearly all of the EU countries.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
America is not bigger than Western Europe. They have 1.5 times the population that we have and constitute a significantly larger proportion of the global economy. We ought to be their ***** rather than the other way around.

Europe of any stripe isn't a country.

[Patroklos]

America is not bigger than Western Europe. They have 1.5 times the population that we have and constitute a significantly larger proportion of the global economy. We ought to be their ***** rather than the other way around.

Thats nice that Western Europe has a larger total population, would you please point to the country "Western Europe" on a map? You could cut the US military/population/economy in half, and then in half again, and we would STILL be the senior partner.

When the EU becomes a super state and if it decides to remain in NATO and after it spends a few decades designing a building a larger military it can have the leadership. As of right now 1.) Western Europe does not have a larger economy and most definelty not for the vast majority if NATO's history 2.) that 1.5 times our population is broken up into a dozen odd smaller portions 3.) because of that Europe suffers from vast inefficiencies in military sheres the most glaring of which is duplication and 4.) they have displayed no will to be the leaders anyway.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Patroklos


There is a difference between "pissed" on and constuctive critisim. In case you haven't noticed, our allies have been heaping unconstructive critism on us for years

Yes there is a difference. What was said was factually wrong and deeply offensive. Does that pass as "constructive criticism" in your part of the world?

edit:

[Zkribbler]

Greece rejects Macedonia Nato bid

Greece has said it cannot support Macedonia's bid to join Nato, because of an unresolved dispute over its Balkan neighbour's name. Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis told reporters in Brussels that Athens backed inviting Albania and Croatia but could not consent to asking Macedonia.

The decision threatens to derail Nato's plans to invite all three Balkan states at a summit in Bucharest in April.

Athens objects to its neighbour taking the name of a northern Greek region.

It says the name implies a territorial claim on the region, which Macedonia denies.

Ms Bakoyannis made the comments in a speech handed to reporters after a meeting of Nato foreign ministers.

"Unfortunately the policy followed by the government of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in its relations with Greece, particularly as concerns its intransigent stance and its actions of an irredentist and nationalist logic, do not allow Greece to take the same positive stance as in the case of Croatia and Albania," she said.

However, she said she hoped there was still time to reach "a mutually acceptable" solution in time for next month's Nato summit.

A UN envoy is currently trying to find a compromise for both countries.

Balkan stability

Nato members are keen to extend the alliance into the Balkans, to stabilise the region after Kosovo's 17 February declaration of independence.

All three countries are backed by Washington and Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said they had worked hard on political and military reforms.

In the long run, he said, the only recipe for Balkan stability was their integration in Nato and the EU.

"I would like all three countries to join," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told reporters.

"A lot depends on the question of whether these two states are going to be able to come closer together in the coming weeks."

Dutch Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen agreed the issue had to be resolved: "A name cannot be an objection for the accession of a country."

Russian dilemma

Requests by Ukraine and Georgia to get a road map for eventual membership are also proving divisive.

Although Nato members want to send a positive signal to the two former Soviet republics, some do not want to risk worsening relations with Russia, which are at their lowest point since the Cold War.

"In Russia we have a new president and I think the European Union wants to put its ties with Russia on another footing", Luxembourg's Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn said.

"We have to take the interests of others, not only the members of Nato, into account."

Afghanistan pressure

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on Nato members to help reinforce Canadian troops in southern Afghanistan.

Canada has threatened to pull out of Kandahar next year unless its Nato allies provide an extra 1,000 soldiers to help fight the Taleban. Dr Rice said Canada's Nato partners had "an obligation to deliver on that".

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said it was up to President Nicolas Sarkozy to decide whether the 1,900 French troops currently in the capital, Kabul, should be sent to the south or the east of the country.

Mr Kouchner also said that Norwegian diplomat Kai Eide had a good chance of taking up the role of the UN's special envoy in Afghanistan.

A previous candidate, Lord Ashdown, was rejected by Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

[snoopy369]

Maybe they could be called Macedon? Or, Makedon? Or, Alexandria

[Wezil]

Greeks have small penises.

[snoopy369]

To be fair, if Canada changed its name to "Oregon", I think the folks in Washington might be irritated also.

Edit: Oregon is a Blue state, right? Then perhaps they'd support the Canadian initiative

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Edit: Oregon is a Blue state, right?

Blue in the West; Red in the East; but mainly Blue.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by snoopy369
To be fair, if Canada changed its name to "Oregon", I think the folks in Washington might be irritated also.

Bad analogy.