Cuban Embargo: Stupid idea or failed policy?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Perhaps because the USSR never tried to invade Western Europe, whereas the US had not only invaded Cuba several times, but has been allowing its soil to be used to base terrorist attacks for fifty years. Western Europe was far less threatened than you think, and they did far more to political dissidents than you think. The French, military, for example, tried to assassinate Sartre. Being French, they failed.

Maybe it's because the USSR was busy invading its own allies several times.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Commies and their excuses

Yes but at least we can have the discussion/debate. I wonder what our Cuban posters have to say about.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Wezil
I'll send you on the same course wrt freedom as Kid.

Opposition by a minority does not an excuse for an embargo make.

The U.S. has political prisoners and millions of economic prisoners, more than any country in the world. Clearly you must embargo us until we are free.

Who? Names of a few please.

Ali Khalid Abdullah #148130
Mound Correctional Facility
17601 Mound Rd
Detroit, MI 48212

https://www.geocities.com/ppwc_uk/aboutali.html

Haki Malik Abdullah (s/n Michael Green) # C-56123
PO Box 3456
Corcoran, CA 93212

Mumia Abu-Jamal # AM-8335
SCI Greene
175 Progress Drive
Waynesburg, PA 15370
www.mumia.org (International Concerned Friends and Family of Mumia Abu-Jamal)
www.freemumia.org (Mobilization to Free Mumia Abu-Jamal [SF])
www.j4mumia.org (Justice For Mumia [NY])

https://www.mumia2000.org

Sundiata Acoli (s/n Clark Squire) # 39794-066
PO Box 3000
USP Allenwood
White Deer, PA 17887
http://www.afrikan.net/sundiata/welcome.html and prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/sundiata-acoli

Charles Sims Africa # AM-4975
SCI Graterford, Box 244
Graterford, PA 19426-0244
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/charles-sims-africa-st.html

Debbie Sims Africa # 006307
SCI Cambridge Springs
451 Fullerton Ave
Cambridge Springs, PA 16403
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/MOVE/debbi-sims-africa-st.html

Delbert Orr Africa # AM-4985
SCI Dallas
Drawer K
Dallas, PA 18612

Edward Goodman Africa # AM-4974
SCI Mahoney
301 Morea Road
Frackville, PA 17932

Janet Holloway Africa # 006308
SCI Cambridge Springs
451 Fullerton Ave
Cambridge Springs, PA 16403
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/MOVE/debbi-sims-africa-st.html

Janine Phillips Africa # 006309
SCI Cambridge Springs
451 Fullerton Ave
Cambridge Springs, PA 16403
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/MOVE/debbi-sims-africa-st.html

Michael Davis Africa # AM-4973
SCI Graterford, Box 244
Graterford PA 19426

William Phillips Africa # AM-4984
SCI Dallas
Drawer K
Dallas, PA 18612

Imam Jamil Al-Amin (s/n H. Rap Brown # 1104651
Georgia State Prison
100 Highway 147
Reidsville, GA 39499-9701

https://www.ImamJamil.com

https://www.mindspring.com/~altafb/ImamAlAmin.html

Tre Arrow
CS# 05850722
Vancouver Island Regional Correction Center
4216 Wilkinson Rd.
Victoria, BC, V8Z 5B2
Canada

https://www.trearrow.org

Kalima Aswad (s/n Robert Duren) # B24120
CMSJ 106L
PO Box 2000
Vacaville, CA 95696-2000

Zolo Azania #4969
Pendelton Correctional Facility
Box 30, I.D.O.C. 6-6 D
Pendelton, Indiana 46064

https://www.prairie-fire.org/freezoloazania.html

Herman Bell # 79C-0262
Sullivan C.F.
Box 116
Riverside Drive
Fallsburg, NY 12733-0116
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/bell.html

Greg Boertje-Obed
Burleigh County Jail
P.O. Box 1416
Bismarck , ND 58502
www.jonahhouse.org (Weapon of Mass Destruction Here Plowshares, sentencing set for December 2006)

Nathan Block
#1663667
Lane County Jail
101 W 5th Ave
Eugene, OR 97401
supportersofnathanandjoyanna@gmail.com

Joseph "Jo-Jo" Bowen # AM 4272
SCI Coal Township
1 Kelley Drive
Coal Township, PA 17866

Veronza Bowers, Jr. #35316-136
FCI Medium C-1
P.O. Box 1032
Coleman, FL 35521-1032
geocities.com/veronzab

Marilyn Buck # 00482-285
5701 - 8th. St. Camp Parks Unit B
Dublin CA 94568
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/marilynbuck
freedomarchives.org/wildpoppies

Fred "Muhammad" Burton
AF 3896
SCI Somerset
1590 Walters Mill Rd
Somerset, PA 15510

Ruben Campa (aka Fernando Gonzalez) # 58733-004
FCI Oxford
PO Box 1000
Oxford, WI 53952

https://www.freethefive.org

Byron Shane Chubbuck # 07909-051
USP Beaumont
P.O. Box 26030
Beaumont, TX 77720

JACOB CONROY, # 93501-011
FCI VICTORVILLE MEDIUM I
FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION
P.O. BOX 5300
ADELANTO, CA 92301
supportjake.org

Marshal Eddie Conway # 116469
Box 534
Jessup MD 20794

https://www.freeeddieconway.org

Rodney Coronado # 03895-000
FCI Tucson
PO Box 23811
Tucson, AZ 85734

https://www.supportrod.org

Jorge Cruz #26318-069
FCI Edgefield
P. O. Box 725
Edgefield, SC 29824-0725
www.prorescatevieques.org and

https://www.nonviolence.org/nukeresister/insideandout.html

Brian DeRouen # 92459-020CI
FCI Taft
Correctional Institution
P.O. Box 7001
Taft, CA 93268
www.soaw.org (prisoner of conscience updates)

Bill Dunne # 10916-086
USP BIG SANDY
P.O. Box 2068
Inez, KY 41224
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/bill-dunne

Romaine 'Chip' Fitzgerald # B-27527
CSP-L.A. Co.-A5-230
44750 60th St. W.
Lancaster, CA 93536

Patrice Lumumba Ford # 96639-011
USP Victorville
PO Box 5500
Adelanto, CA 92301

DARIUS FULMER # 26397-050
FCI FORT DIX
P.O. BOX 2000
FORT DIX, NJ 08640

https://www.shac7.com/dari

Christine Gaunt
Muscogee County Jail
700 E. 10th St.
Columbus, GA 31901-2899

https://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=1228

LAUREN GAZZOLA # 93497-011
FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION
FCI DANBURY
ROUTE #37
DANBURY, CT 06811
supportlauren.com

Ana Lucia Gelabert # 384484
GV Unit
1401 State School Rd.
Gatesville, TX 76599

Alice Gerard # 92095-020
FCI Danbury
33-1/2 Pembroke Station, Route 37
Danbury, CT 06811
www.soaw.org (prisoner of conscience updates)

David Gilbert # 83-A-6158
Clinton Correctional Facility
P.O. Box 2001
Dannemora, NY 12929
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/davidgilbert

William Gilday # W33537
MCI Shirley
PO Box 1218
Shirley, MA 01464-1218

René González # 58738-004
FCI Marianna
P.O. Box 7007
Marianna, FL 32447-7007

https://www.freethefive.org

Antonio Guerrero # 58741-004
USP Florence
PO Box 7500
Florence, CO 81226

https://www.freethefive.org

Abdel-Jabbar Hamdan

https://www.petitiononline.com/Hamdan/petition.html

Bashir Hameed (s/n James York) # 82-A-6313
Sullivan Correctional Facility
Box AG
Fallsburg, NY 12733-0116

https://www.thejerichomovement.com/bashir_hameed.htm

Joshua Harper # 29429-086
FDC Sheridan
Federal Detention Center
P.O. Box 6000
Sheridan, OR 97378

https://www.joshharper.org

Eddie Hatcher # 0173499
Marion Corr. Inst
PO Box 2405
Marion, NC 28752

https://www.eddiehatcher.org

Robert Seth Hayes # 74-A-2280
Wende Correctional Facility
PO Box 1187
Alden, NY 14004-1187
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/robert-seth-hayes-st.html

Alvaro Luna Hernandez #255735
Hughes Unit
Rt. 2, Box 4400
Gatesville, TX 76597

https://www.freealvaro.org

Gerardo Hernandez # 58739-004
USP Victorville
PO Box 5500
Adelanto, CA 92301

https://www.freethefive.org

Freddie Hilton (Kamau Sadiki) # 115688
Augusta State Medical Prison, Bldg 13A-2 E7
3001 Gordon Highway
Grovetown, GA 30812-3809
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/kamau-sadiki

James "Doc" Holiday # 86555-012
Marion USP
PO Box 2000, Route 5
Marion, IL 62959

Robert Joyner # AF 3793
SCI Graterford
Box 244
Graterford, PA 19426-0244

Alvin Joyner # AF 4296
SCI Chester
500 E Fourth St.
Chester, PA 19013

Carl Kabat
Burleigh County Jail
P.O. Box 1416
Bismarck , ND 58502
www.jonahhouse.org (Weapon of Mass Destruction Here Plowshares, sentencing set for December 2006)

Sekou Cinque T.M. Kambui (s/n William Turk) #113058
P.O. Box 56 (SCC) (B1-32)
Elmore, AL 36025-0056
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/sekou-kambui-st.html

Khalfani X. Khaldun # 874304
s/n Leonard McQuay
Wabash Valley Correctional Facility
PO Box 1111 A2 - 201 S.H.U. A/S
Carlisle, IN 47838

Yu Kikumura # 090008-050
PO Box 8500 ADX
Florence, CO 81226

James William Kilgore # 09879-000
USP Lompoc
3901 Klein Blvd.
Lompoc, CA 93436

KEVIN KJONAAS # 93502-011
UNIT I
FCI SANDSTONE
P.O. BOX 1000
SANDSTONE, MN 55072

https://www.supportkevin.com

Mohamman Geuka Koti, 80A-0808
354 Hunter Street
Ossining, NY 10562-5442

Jaan Laaman W41514
Box 100
South Walpole, MA 02071
home.earthlink.net/~neoludd

Ramon Labañino (Luis Medina III) # 58734-004
Beaumont USP
PO Box 26035
Beaumont, TX 77720

https://www.freethefive.org

Richard Mafundi Lake # 79972
Holman CF
Holman 3700
Atmore, AL 36503-3700
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/mafundi-st.html

Wopa****we Mondo Eyen we Langa (s/n David Rice) # 27768
PO Box 2500
Lincoln NE 68542-2500
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/mondo-we-langa
and mondo.info

Maliki Shakur Latine # 81-A-4469
PO Box 2001
Dannemora, NY 12929

Oscar Lopez-Rivera # 87651-024
U.S. Penitentiary
P.O. Box 12015
Terre Haute, IN 47801

https://www.prcc-chgo.org/NBHRN_site/prisoners/prisoners_2.asp

and prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/oscar-lopez-rivera.html

Jeffrey "Free" Luers #13797671
OSP
2605 State Street
Salem, OR 97310

https://www.freefreenow.org

Ojore Lutalo # 59860
PO Box 861, #901548
Trenton NJ 08625
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/ojore.html

Ruchell Cinque Magee # A92051
3B-05-103
Box 3466
Corcoran, CA 93212
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/ruchel-lmagee

Abdul Majid (s/n Anthony Laborde) # 83-A-0483
Green Haven Correctional Facility
Malone, NY 12953

https://www.thejerichomovement.com/abdul_majid.htm

Thomas Manning # 10373-016
United States Penitentiary - Hazelton
Box 2000
Bruceton Mills, West Virginia 26525

https://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3400

Sr. Lelia Mattingly # 92460-020
FCI Danbury
33-1/2 Pembroke Station, Route 37
Danbury, CT 06811
www.soaw.org (prisoner of conscience updates)

Eric McDavid
X-2972521 4E231A
Sacramento County Main Jail
651 "I" Street
Sacramento, CA 95814

https://www.supporteric.org

Daniel McGowan #63794-053
Out on bail

https://www.supportdaniel.org

Masai Mugmuk # 58157
CN-861-4B12 MCU
Trenton NJ 08625

Ramiro "Ramsey" R. Muñiz # 40288-115
U.S.P. Florence
P.O. Box 7000
Florence, CO 81226
freeramsey.com

Jalil Muntaqim (aka Anthony Jalil Bottom) # 77A4283
Auburn Corr. Facility
135 State Street, P.O. Box 618
Auburn, NY 13024
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/jalilmuntaqim

Sekou Odinga # 05228-054
USP Florence ADMAX
P.O. Box 8500
Florence, CO 81226
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/sekou-odinga

Sara Olson # W94197
506-10-04L
C.C.W.F. PO Box 1508
Chowchilla, CA 93610-1508

Leonard Peltier # 89637-132
USP Terre Haute
U.S. Penitentiary
P.O. Box 12015
Terre Haute, IN 47801

https://www.leonardpeltier.net

https://www.myspace.com/freepeltier

https://www.myspace.com/bobinsuisse

Dan Pens # 279308
Stafford Creek Correctional Center
191 Constantine Way (H6-A11L)
Aberdeen, WA 98520

José Pérez González # 21519-069
USP Atlanta
PO Box 150160
Atlanta, GA 30315
www.prorescatevieques.org and

https://www.nonviolence.org/nukeresister/insideandout.html

Hugo "Dahariki" Pinell # A88401
POB 7500 SHU-D-214
Crescent City CA 95531

https://www.afrikan.net/dreadx1.html

Ed Poindexter # 110403
Minnesota Correctional Facility
7525 4th Avenue
Lino Lakes, MN 55014-1099

Luis V. Rodríguez # C33000
Mule Creek State Prison
P.O. Box 409000
Ione, CA 95640

https://www.humanrights.de/doc_en/archiv/u/usa/luis/lr1.html

Kojo Bomani Sababu (s/n Grailing Brown) # 39384-066
Victorville Med II FCI
13777 Air Express Way Blvd.
Victorville, CA 92394
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/kojo-st.html

Tewahnee Sahme # 11186353
SRCI
777 Stanton Blvd.
Ontario, OR 97914

Hanif Shabazz Bey (Beaumont Gereau) # 295933
Wallens Ridge State Prison
PO Box 759
Big Stone Gap, VA 24219
burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/bey.html

Abdul Shakur # C-48884
PO Box 7500
Crescent City, CA 95532

Dr. Mutulu Shakur # 83205-012
PO Box PMB - D Unit 105
Altanta GA 30315
prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/mutulu-shakur and www.thejerichomovement.com/drmutulushakur.htm

Shaka Shakur # 28443
MCC
Westville, IN 46361

Tsutomo Shirosaki # 20924-016
PO Box 26035
Beaumont, TX 77720

Russel Maroon Shoats # AF-3855
175 Progress Drive
Waynesburg PA 15370
burn.ucsd.edu/~abcf/maroon.html

ANDREW STEPANIAN # 26399-050
FCI BUTNER MEDIUM II
FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION
P.O. BOX 1500
BUTNER, NC 27509
andystepanian.com

James "Ashante" Sullivan # AF 6772
PO Box 99901
Pittsburgh, PA 15233

Carlos Alberto Torres # 88976-024
FCI Oxford
PO Box 1000
Oxford WI 53952
www.wco.com/~boricua/POWS/carlos.htm and prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/carlos-alberto-torres.html

https://www.prcc-chgo.org/NBHRN_site/prisoners/prisoners_2.asp

Priscilla Treska
Muscogee County Jail
700 E. 10th St.
Columbus, GA 31901-2899

https://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=1228

Daud Obida Tulam # 55657-CN-861
Trenton NJ 08625

Gary Tyler # 84156
Louisiana State Penitentiary
ASH-4
Angola LA 70712

José Vélez Acosta # 23883-069
USP Coleman
PO Box 1033
Coleman, FL 3352
www.prorescatevieques.org and

https://www.nonviolence.org/nukeresister/insideandout.html

Vieques resisters are listed at:
www.prorescatevieques.org and

https://www.nonviolence.org/nukeresister/insideandout.html

John Wade # 38548-083
FCI Petersburg Low
PO Box 1000
Petersburg, VA 23804

Herman "Hooks" Wallace
DOC #76759-CCR L/F #13
Louisiana State Penitentiary
ASH-4
Angola LA 70712
prisonactivist.org/angola

Mike Walli
Burleigh County Jail
P.O. Box 1416
Bismarck , ND 58502
www.jonahhouse.org (Weapon of Mass Destruction Here Plowshares, sentencing set for December 2006)

Gary Watson # 098990
Delaware Correctional Center
1181 Paddock Rd.
Smyrna, DE 19977

Hugh Williams # AF 2932
SCI Graterford
Box 244
Graterford, PA 19426-0244

Albert Woodfox # 72148
Louisiana State Penitentiary
CCR Upper B Cell 13
Angola LA 70712
prisonactivist.org/angola

Helen Woodson # 03231-045

https://www.motherearth.org/prisoner/woodson.php

Joyanna Zacher #1662550
Lane County Jail
101 W 5th Ave
Eugene, OR 97401
supportersofnathanandjoyanna@gmail.com

There are more than ten million Mexicans in the U.S. Clearly you must embargo Mexico.

You are playing with the definitions. Economic migrants vs political ones. And no, not all cuban refugees are political but I suspect very, very few of the mexican ones are.

I have yet to meet a Cuban whose family member was murdered for opposing the current government. I went to school with a woman whose cousin was disappeared in 1988 after the fraudulent election of Salinas in Mexico as he was pointing out the fraud in his region. Mexico is a very repressive place. I could go into further detail, but it's beside the point. On the other hand, most of the Cubans coming to the U.S. these days are coming here for jobs. If they were simply trying to escape political repression, Haiti is much, much closer. So are the Bahamas. How many Cubans make it to Canada?

Cuba is a country under siege. Thousands of terrorist attacks have been carried out from the United States, including an invasion. You cannot have fee and fair elections if the country next door is trying to destroy you. The U.S. government spends many millions in many countries in order to interfere with their internal democracies.

See my reply to Kid about the war being continuous.

Which country continues to allow its territory to be used for terrorist attacks upon the other? The war is real. The threat to Cuba is real.

The regimes biggest dangers are from within.

That's true of every government on Earth

The Cuban people will eventually bring an end to this, not the US.

Maybe. Maybe they don't want to. Since the old guard in Miami is dying off, a lot of the younger Cubans aren't saying the same things about how terrible life in Cuba is. They want the U.S. to leave their island alone, but they like having the free green card, financial aid, and the ability to get a job, though many don't get jobs to their liking.

Great. You can have the **** in bag A or the *** in bag B. Nice choice Che.

That's what we have in America, Democrat, Republican, same **** bags, different names. At least in Cuba they can recall their **** bags. We're stuck with ours until the next election.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Wezil


Yes but at least we can have the discussion/debate. I wonder what our Cuban posters have to say about.

Why not go to Cuba and ask them?

[Patroklos]

Perhaps because the USSR never tried to invade Western Europe, whereas the US had not only invaded Cuba several times, but has been allowing its soil to be used to base terrorist attacks for fifty years. Western Europe was far less threatened than you think, and they did far more to political dissidents than you think. The French, military, for example, tried to assassinate Sartre. Being French, they failed.

Wow, you mean the USSR was totally uninvolved with communist partisan activities in Greece and Italy :shock:

It is interesting that I can't remember a single instance of the US threatening the nuke Cuba, but the USSR sure as hell did that to Western Europe regularly.

How many millions of troops did the US have mobilized to invade Cuba on a moments notice again?

And spare us the quibbling lame counter example you are relishing posting, because everyone knows it is not a relevant counter.

The simple fact is that democracies around the world have and continue to operate dispite real and constant external threats greater than anything Cuba has ever had to endure. Communists don't allow elections for one simple reason, they know their citizens would kick them out on their ass in a heart beat.

Why not go to Cuba and ask them?

Sanctions don't affect the internet, so who exactly is keeping them from telling us how totally awesome communism is?

And btw, Che, I note you didn't include what those people are in prison for. HINT: its not for being anti-universal healthcare

Since the old guard in Miami is dying off, a lot of the younger Cubans aren't saying the same things about how terrible life in Cuba is.

Wow, you mean people who didn't actually live through the murderous and oppresive Casto dictatorship don't have stories about living under the murderous and oppresive Castor dictatorship. Imagine that.

[chequita guevara]

In the U.S., you can't simply jail someone for what they say, so instead you trump up a charge against them. For example, Geronimo Pratt spent 30 years in prison for a murder he supposedly committed in Los Angeles while he was in Oakland. Eventually when it came out that the informant to whom Pratt supposedly confessed was actually a paid FBI information (that the government had failed to disclose) a judge threw out the case and released him.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Wow, you mean people who didn't actually live through the murderous and oppresive Casto dictatorship don't have stories about living under the murderous and oppresive Castor dictatorship. Imagine that.

No, I mean the people who didn't come over in the 60s, but came over since the 80s.

[Patroklos]

No, I mean the people who didn't come over in the 60s, but came over since the 80s.

Yeah, I imagine that after the first 20 years of murders, imprisonments, and exiles the population got the hint. Things usually get quiet once you have eliminated the upidy ones

[Ramo]

It's obviously a dumb, counterproductive, cruel policy.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Opposition by a minority does not an excuse for an embargo make.

Come on Che. You aren't this dense. What happens to the opposition is the issue. Geez.

Ali Khalid Abdullah #148130
Mound Correctional Facility
17601 Mound Rd
Detroit, MI 48212

https://www.geocities.com/ppwc_uk/aboutali.html

Before I go through your list, can you remove those convicted/accused of violence or inciting violence? That should make things much more managable.

I have yet to meet a Cuban whose family member was murdered for opposing the current government.

I haven't either. So?

I went to school with a woman whose cousin was disappeared in 1988 after the fraudulent election of Salinas in Mexico as he was pointing out the fraud in his region. Mexico is a very repressive place. I could go into further detail, but it's beside the point.

Mexico is bad so Cuba must be good? Sure.

Yes, you are right, it is beside the point.

On the other hand, most of the Cubans coming to the U.S. these days are coming here for jobs. If they were simply trying to escape political repression, Haiti is much, much closer. So are the Bahamas.

Yes, risk shark infested waters to go to a place to starve. Good plan. You really are stretching Che.

How many Cubans make it to Canada?

A fair number actually. There is a sizable community in Montreal.

That's true of every government on Earth

Yes, but not every government on earth imprisons those that call for change.

Maybe. Maybe they don't want to. Since the old guard in Miami is dying off, a lot of the younger Cubans aren't saying the same things about how terrible life in Cuba is. They want the U.S. to leave their island alone, but they like having the free green card, financial aid, and the ability to get a job, though many don't get jobs to their liking.

Only time will tell which of us is right. When the Castro's finally do die the place will be ripe for change. Let's hope.

That's what we have in America, Democrat, Republican, same **** bags, different names. At least in Cuba they can recall their **** bags. We're stuck with ours until the next election.

Ah yes but you silly buggers choose to have it that way. I have often seen the communist party on my ballot. I've had the choice of dozens of parties in my life.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Why not go to Cuba and ask them?

Why won't can't they come online and tell us?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the U.S., you can't simply jail someone for what they say, so instead you trump up a charge against them. For example, Geronimo Pratt spent 30 years in prison for a murder he supposedly committed in Los Angeles while he was in Oakland. Eventually when it came out that the informant to whom Pratt supposedly confessed was actually a paid FBI information (that the government had failed to disclose) a judge threw out the case and released him.

Wow so there was a miscarriage of justice involving a government witness? Shocker! I do note however that same system did ultimately set him free.

[GePap]

My main problem with the embargo, besides the obvious fact it has failed as a policy, is that it is silly that we conduct business with China and Vietnam, two states equally as represive as Cuba. If we can trade with those communists, we can trade with Cuban communist, if they decide to trade.

And I do not find the embargo on SA comparable for several reasons:

1. It was never as comprehensive as that with Cuba AFAIK. I don't think travel to SA was made illegal, and I do no thing that Americans were forbidden to buy items made in SA in third countries, things that are illegal to do vis a vi Cuba.

2. Cuba's regime is authoritarian but popular (in the sense that a mass party that any Cuban can join rules the country). SA's regime was "democratic" (citizens could vote freely) but not popular (most inhabitants had second class status). That distinction matters.

[VetLegion]

Both a stupid idea and failed policy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Wezil
Come on Che. You aren't this dense. What happens to the opposition is the issue.

At the beginning, IRRC, you simply noted the existence of an opposition as excuse enough for the embargo.

Ali Khalid Abdullah #148130
Mound Correctional Facility
17601 Mound Rd
Detroit, MI 48212

https://www.geocities.com/ppwc_uk/aboutali.html

Before I go through your list, can you remove those convicted/accused of violence or inciting violence? That should make things much more managable.

Most of them are accused of violence, because that's the charge, that if it sticks, guarantees a long sentence. Assata Shakur, not on the list because she escaped to Cuba, for example, was accused of murder for being in the car with someone who did in fact kill someone else. The state doesn't even bother to argue she pulled the trigger. Merely being there was enough.

I have yet to meet a Cuban whose family member was murdered for opposing the current government.

I haven't either. So?

So, we, and Canada, do quite a bit of business with countries that do kill people for political reasons.

On the other hand, most of the Cubans coming to the U.S. these days are coming here for jobs. If they were simply trying to escape political repression, Haiti is much, much closer. So are the Bahamas.

Yes, risk shark infested waters to go to a place to starve. Good plan. You really are stretching Che.

Like all those people fleeing Darfur to go to Chad? The main cause of death in the Darfur "genocide" is starvation in Chad. If Cuba were so horrible that people were willing to do anything to get out, they'd go to Haiti and the Bahamas. Actually, some do go to the Bahamas, then they try and get here so they can get their free government handouts.

How many Cubans make it to Canada?

A fair number actually. There is a sizable community in Montreal.

How big is that?

That's true of every government on Earth

Yes, but not every government on earth imprisons those that call for change.

And most people calling for change in Cuba don't get jailed.

Ah yes but you silly buggers choose to have it that way. I have often seen the communist party on my ballot. I've had the choice of dozens of parties in my life.

Actually, we didn't get to chose to have it that way. Our system was designed that way and nearly impossible to change.

I wonder how democratic your country would be if we were trying to destroy you while funding your opposition.