How bad was colonialism really?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Kontiki is Chinese?

WTF is China?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Racist little Chinese living in Canada.

Just because he's racist dosent' mean he's wrong. I mean with Markos and the Italian people runing around do you think poly would be any better off with EU subsidies?

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Barnabas
How did japan progress so fast? They went from medieval to beating russia in an incredibly short time span

protectionism, and adopting as much of western technology and ways that they could stomach.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Barnabas
How did japan progress so fast? They went from medieval to beating russia in an incredibly short time span

Free trade, obviously.

[Az]

Originally posted by Barnabas
How did japan progress so fast? They went from medieval to beating russia in an incredibly short time span

the meiji restoration

[LordShiva]

Japan's rapid development was kicked off when Commodore Perry forced them to open up their economy

[Heraclitus]

@ FT as panacea.

[Az]

which created a great crisis that destroyed the shogunate. yes, in a way it's right.

It was very similar to a feudal european state, only it moved through all the stages to become similar to imperial germany very fast.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Barnabas
How did japan progress so fast? They went from medieval to beating russia in an incredibly short time span

I think more importantly is how did they go from a country of ninjas and samurai to Hello Kitty.

[Heraclitus]

I know ninjas and samurai are powerfull but Hello Kitty is unstopable.

[Arrian]

Hmm. May have to upgrade to 4/10...

-Arrian

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Barnabas
How did japan progress so fast? They went from medieval to beating russia in an incredibly short time span

Don't forget that at the time Japan began to modernize Russia was still a feudal society too. At the time the industrial revolution had really just begun in most of Europe outside of Britain, the US, and France. For that matter even British technology wasn't so advanced that learing to copying it would probably have not taken more than a year's study. Steam engines burned wood and developed less than 15 psi pressure. Bessemer's converter made the prodution of larger quantities of steel possible, but there was a way to go before the steel so made was of useful quality.

That was more than 50 years before Tushima. The Meijii restoration established the Japanese emporer in a position of power over Japanese society that the Tsar would have envied. The Japanese began systematically converting their society into really the proto-type of the modern industrial fascist nation at a time when their future WW2 partners were still struggling to unite. They took the institutions of feudal Japan and grafted onto them the structures of a modern commercial and industrial nation. The nobility of Japan were converted from agricultural landlords to masters of great empires of industry, banking and shipping.

They did so with a great deal of help first from the US, then from Great Britain. The US got their first, but when the Japanese realised how much more they could get from the British they dropped us like a used rubber. The British exchanged machinery and weapons for silk and other textiles. In Russia at the same time commerce and industry were looked down on by the gentry. Much of Russia's industrialization was actually handled by foreign companies.

The Japanese cooly selected what features of western society they would copy. They quickly realised the advantage of universal education. The public schools of Japan became the training camps of the future imperial armies. At first this was intended to seal the Emporer's position as the true source of powert in Japan. In command of a huge modern army the Emporer would never again be subjugated by a Shogan.

Finally it should be pointed out that the Japanese navy that won the battle of Tushima was built in Britain, and was more modern than the opponent's fleet. Furthermore it had not had to steam more than 20,000 miles before coming into battle and was not desperately low on fuel. The Tsar's navy had decided to go the long way around Africa rather than go through the Suez canal and give away their position. Also, Russia had no naval bases along the way. Many of the ships of the Russian navy were in bad need of repair from the long journey. Russia's position on land was no better. The Siberian railroad was inadequate to support a large army, and Russia's Pacific provinces were woefully underdeveloped. The Japanese army on the other hand had only a very short supply line and plentiful replacements.

[David Floyd]

In any event, Ethiopia isn't any worse off than the rest of Africa, and it was never colonized.

Yeah, but it's certainly no better, either. It's also worse off than some nations which were colonized, such as South Africa. The only thing Ethiopia "proves" is that absent colonization, Africa would be in much the same state as it is today.

But I can't really agree with that, because if you take away colonialism you take away a great deal of European influence, which also takes away infrastructure such as factories and railroads and mines. To take an example, the Zulus weren't about to start large scale diamond or gold mining, yet the extraction of such resources is one thing that allowed South Africa to be a fairly prosperous nation (although it's been sliding backwards lately).

[Heraclitus]

You are forgetting that Ethipoia was invaded by Italy and almost kicked their arses.

[Dinner]

Yeah, but Italy sucks.