Doctor refuses to uphold end of bargain made for free education

[DinoDoc]

BOSTON - A federal appeals court has upheld a judge’s ruling that the Army was wrong to deny a Massachusetts doctor’s application for conscientious objector status.

Doctor Mary Hanna had agreed to serve four years on active duty and another four years in the reserve after the Army paid $184,000 for her to attend Tufts University School of Medicine.

But Hanna — a 31-year-old anesthesiologist — argued that her religious beliefs had since changed and she could not in good conscience participate in war. She went to court after her application for conscientious objector status was denied last September by an Army review board, which last September.

Judge Nancy Gertner overruled the decision and ordered Hanna discharged.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit upheld Gertner’s ruling Wednesday by a 2-1 vote.

Can a lawyer explain this to me because it seems like a really scummy way to get a free education from the taxpayers? I hope it is appealed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

IIRC, if they can't find non-combat place for her (whether due to her beliefs or no room), the Army can require the doctor to pay back the money for the med school education.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Not clear: is she trying to get out of the military altogether, or is she willing to serve as a CO? Because it seems to me there are about a zillion assignments the military could give a doctor that would jibe with CO status; Walter Reed, for example.

[DinoDoc]

I find it more than a little strange that these beliefs only surfaced as she was being deployed. The army even offered her guarantees she wouldn't be deployed to any potential warzone. As for paying it back, the army isn't Sallie Mae nor is it supposed to be. They fulfilled thier end of the contract and she should fill her end of the bargain.

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Not clear: is she trying to get out of the military altogether,

Out, period. At least based on all the reporting so far.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Out, period. At least based on all the reporting so far.

Oh, well that's bull**** then. I can believe that she might have experienced a religious conversion in med school -- I mean, it's no more improbable than any other religious experience -- but she could still serve in the military, as many COs did during WWII and other wars.

I hope Imran's right about the payback clause.

[DinoDoc]

It wasn't in Med School this supposed conversion occured. It was after graduation and when she was facing deployment.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
It wasn't in Med School this supposed conversion occured. It was after graduation and when she was facing deployment.

Well, you know what they say: "There are no atheists in the foxhole."

[Lancer]

Why would she object to being a doctor in a foxhole for religious reasons? If she never carried a gun, just a med kit then she could never take anyone's life, could save some and the worst that could happen is she gets killed.

Does her religion object to people that lay down their lives for others? If so, it can't be a Christian religion, Christ on the cross laying down his life for humanity...

I think this chick is full of crap, could be wrong though.

I recall a story from the military before the first gulf war that a significant % of women got preggo to avoid mid east deployment. Untrained people took their places and had to try to get up to speed during the deployment. Having untrained people in a war costs lives therefore women in the military costs lives. Not PC, but I care not, it sucks.

[Jon Miller]

Adventists are no longer commonly COs, but previous to the 50s we were very pacifistic (There was even a split over WW1, due to some thinking that fighting for the country was OK and others not).

I read the story of the life of this man (when growing up) and always thought highly of COs who were medics and still served their country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_doss

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
As for paying it back, the army isn't Sallie Mae nor is it supposed to be. They fulfilled thier end of the contract and she should fill her end of the bargain.Out, period. At least based on all the reporting so far.

Ah... well that's not how contract law works .

You can't force someone to perform specific performance if that specific performance is personal service (13th Amendment issues). You can ask for your money back and any penalties and whatnot. Contract law is very flexible about people being able to break their end of the deal as long as the proper penalties are paid.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Well, you know what they say: "There are no atheists in the foxhole."

But she'd be no where near a foxhole. As I said the army was more than willing to provide her such promises to that effect. Given her supposed feelings on the subject I'm unsure how she's going to actually be a doctor and treat patients given the fact that by her statements she's going to have to pick and choose who's surgery she's going to be helping with. No cops, anyone charged with violent crimes, or any current or former soldier for instance.

Imran: As long as the penalties included her paying back the cost of the education and the salary she drew while undertaking an obligation she never intended to fill, up front and right now. So be it. I didn't pay for her education as part of a loan program. I paid for it to get the use of her training Why should the program even exist if it is that easy to get out of it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Courts don't like payment programs . That means they've have to constantly check to see if things are being paid on time.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Ah... well that's not how contract law works .

You can't force someone to perform specific performance if that specific performance is personal service (13th Amendment issues). You can ask for your money back and any penalties and whatnot. Contract law is very flexible about people being able to break their end of the deal as long as the proper penalties are paid.

However, the Army is exempt from this element of contract law, is it not? Otherwise Desertion wouldn't be a separate crime from just breach-of-contract...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Courts don't like payment programs . That means they've have to constantly check to see if things are being paid on time.

Indeed, i'm sure she'd be required to pay it up front, she'd have to get a loan on her own...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why should the program even exist if it is that easy to get out of it?

Right on bro! Let's end all military education programs.