Helsinki Disses German Trams, Going to Buy Croatian Trams

[Dinner]

From my original link, if you looked at it, you will find that the SD100s were bought in 1995 while in 2004 San Diego began buying the smaller and more efficient SD70 instead. The idea was to have smaller trolleys but more of them instead of fewer of the larger SD160s. Thus people wait less time for a trolley to arrive and the city can actually run more trolleys over the network.

[snoopy369]

I saw a guy driving a Yugo around the other day... nearly fell down laughing

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
From my original link, if you looked at it, you will find that the SD100s were bought in 1995 while in 2004 San Diego began buying the smaller and more efficient SD70 instead. The idea was to have smaller trolleys but more of them instead of fewer of the larger SD160s. Thus people wait less time for a trolley to arrive and the city can actually run more trolleys over the network.

Ah yes, San Diego discovered the "streetcar" technique. How cutting edge?

I'm not sure why you need them more frequent than every 5 minutes, really.

In Calgary they're 4 cars long, I'm not sure why you'd make the argument that smaller is better. They can already go down to say, 2 cars per train twice as often if they wanted, you don't need small cars for that.

Then again, Calgary's the most utilized LRT network in North America...maybe following San Diego -- a distant #4 in use -- isn't the best idea.

[Dinner]

They already have the old U2s and newish SD100 running 4-6 cars long so what they really needed was more frequent service rather then having everyone waiting around for a big train. They decided to have a bunch of little 2 car trains going around the routes on a much more frequent basis thus provided faster and more convent service for riders. That's the smart route.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
They already have the old U2s and newish SD100 running 4-6 cars long so what they really needed was more frequent service rather then having everyone waiting around for a big train. They decided to have a bunch of little 2 car trains going around the routes on a much more frequent basis thus provided faster and more convent service for riders. That's the smart route.

I seem to be missing why you need new cars if you want to simply run less cars together.

Why can't you run 1 SD100 by itself, or 2 SD100s instead of 4-6? The 4-6 isn't a fixed number, all cars are identical. You can 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 cars hooked up together. That's an operational decision, not a technical one.

The reality of why San Diego ordered the SD70s is likely because:
1) San Diego's ridership is too low to justify the bigger SD100/160s
2) They got a great deal on the SD70s

[Dinner]

They own the following:


Manufacturer/Model Numbers Order Date
Siemens-Duewag U2 1001-1014 1980
Siemens-Duewag U2 1015-1024 1982
Siemens-Duewag U2 1025-1030 1986
Siemens-Duewag U2 1031-1050 1989
Siemens-Duewag U2 1051-1071 1990
Siemens SD100 2001-2052 1995
Siemens SD70 3001-3011 2004

With 51 SD100s that are only 3-13 years old & 67 U2s there isn't much need for large trains on the main lines. What's needed is small trains running the feeder lines and the new line through Mission Valley. That's why they're buying SD70s. As an added bonus it is just cheaper to operate the smaller trains on the feeder lines then to shell out big money for extra capacity which would go unused plus you can run more of the small trains during peak hours meaning people wait less time at each stop.

[Asher]

Oerdin. You don't buy trains, you buy the cars. They put the cars together in any configuration they want.

Your argument doesn't make any sense. I'm sure the smaller cars are cheaper, and given San Diego's low ridership, that makes sense. But you can still make smaller trains of the existing cars. Your argument is just about why they use the cars to make smaller trains, which can be done with both just fine.

It's clear there's economic reasons for it, but mostly in the format of deals or using smaller cars simply because of less ridership.

[snoopy369]

Smaller train cars are perhaps more fuel efficient?

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Smaller train cars are perhaps more fuel efficient?

Yes, but then you need more of them for equivalent traffic?

And his argument uses that as a central point -- now they have more trains more often, so gains in less fuel consumption on the smaller cars are negated.

[Zylka]

Re: Helsinki Disses German Trams, Going to Buy Croatian Trams

Originally posted by VetLegion
the right is the Croatian excellent machine

That looks like a kitsch 1960s kitchen appliance!

[Proteus_MST]

Those are the ones commonly used in Ruhr Valley:
Düwag, type M/N

http://www.tram-info.de/wagenp/bild.htm?bochum&341

Düwag Type B

http://www.tram-info.de/wagenp/bild.htm?bochum&6001

Those are the ones that will replace them within the next years (30 pf them are ordered):
Stadler Variobahn

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Mh_VBL_variobahn.jpg

http://www.bogestra.de/cache/pica/5/5/5/1/147531133867105/variobahn.JPG

[Lancer]

Back to the original topic, those German trains look grandma feminine, like Auntie Winply's strimblits. The Croatian train on the other hand looks like a phalic symbol hunting a tunnel, ready to charge!

The Croation train is the more manly train.

[Julian Delphiki]

Manly trams public testing started today. HKL says that it's currently too long for Helsinki and needs more seats for passengers.

[VetLegion]

I use this tram to commute every day. I think that they can easily shorten it, however it could be difficult to add more seats. When you make a low-floor tram you can't put the engines completely underneath the coaches, you have to think up some other solution. The position and number of seats in this tram is dictated by the position of the engines - something I don't think is easy to change.

[Sandman]

Edinburgh's got some trams on the way. And it's only going to cost £800 million and months of disruption to the city's excellent bus service.

A councillor told me that one reason they were going for trams is that Edinburgh has loads of middle/upper class idiots who'd rather hang themselves than use a bus, but love the idea of trams. Why educate morons when you can pander to them?