Iranian aggressors act aggressive to USN

[binTravkin]

From

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

It was, however, a known fact that many of the senior officers on board the Vincennes knew very little about computerized warfare. The tactical officer for surface warfare, Lt Cmdr Guillory, knew so little that he routinely used his computer screens as a surface for sticky notes instead. Petty Officer Anderson, who missed Flight 655 on the schedule because it was so dark, also later claimed that he was confused by the gulf's four different time zones, something proper training could have easily helped with. Lt Clay Zocher was the boss of Air Alley, which was responsible for air warfare, but he had only stood watch at that post twice before and had never fully learned and mastered the console routines. In fact, when he was finally given the green light to fire upon the incoming aircraft, he pressed the wrong keys 23 times, until a veteran petty officer leaned over and hit the right ones. Nerves were shattered, and the training seemed nonexistent.

US military high tech my ass.

[Patroklos]

knew so little that he routinely used his computer screens as a surface for sticky notes instead.

I still do when I am not using them

In fact, when he was finally given the green light to fire upon the incoming aircraft, he pressed the wrong keys 23 times, until a veteran petty officer leaned over and hit the right ones.

If you ever look at a console, you will know why. It is like they went out of their way to make them as non user friendly as possible

[Qilue]

There's another possibility.

E) The Iranians were illegally dumping household garbage into the gulf and the USN reacted like it was a threat to reason and global peace.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by binTravkin
From

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

US military high tech my ass.

Just to be clear, you are using a example of an incident from over 19 years ago as an example of "lol computer illiteracy"?

[binTravkin]

I was just saying that giving high tech to such persons is like giving a knife to a toddler - sooner or later they're gonna hurt someone or themselves.
The historical example brilliantly proves that - let's just shoot at everything in range, even if we don't know which button is the 'fire' one.

I'm not saying soldiers in USN are equally computer illiterate as they were back then, but, well, technology haven't been standing still as well.
The issue sounds especially relevant on the grounds of education quality becoming a leading subject of election debate, hinting that even US politicians admit that there's a problem.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by germanos


On page one of your source:
(bolding mine)

The facts, however, tell a different story. Saddam has dominated Iraqi politics for more than 30 years. During that period, he started two wars against his neighbors - Iran in 1980 and Kuwait in 1990. Saddam's record in this regard is no worse than that of neighboring states such as Egypt or Israel, each of which played a role in starting several wars since 1948. Furthermore, a careful look at Saddam's two wars shows his behavior was far from reckless. Both times, he attacked because Iraq was vulnerable and because he believed his targets were weak and isolated. In each case, his goal was to rectify Iraq's strategic dilemma with a limited military victory. Such reasoning does not excuse Saddam's aggression, but his willingness to use force on these occasions hardly demonstrates that he cannot be deterred.

I must confess I've canceled further reading the article after this paragraph.

I really don't understand why, because it is probably a more accurate and impartial account of Saddam's foreign policy than any thing written in mainstream media in the last several years.

Saddam's recklessness was much more inwards directed, and both his wars were very calculated chances, both of which he lost, but that does not make him reckless.

You'd also find this supports any anti-war position I think you have. As in: Saddam wasn't really the reckless warmonger he was made to be by American press.

[Sirotnikov]

They are out of control.

actually they are probably ahmedinejad's most serious power-base, himself being a long serving RG officer.

[Patroklos]

The historical example brilliantly proves that - let's just shoot at everything in range, even if we don't know which button is the 'fire' one.

We have shot down hundreds of thousands of airliners?

If you read the account, it was not lets shoot everything in range. They fired on what they thought they saw, which wasn't what actually was there. It wasn't the decision making process that was off, it was the initial observation (and the person who made the mistake in identification isn't the same one who fired).

actually they are probably ahmedinejad's most serious power-base, himself being a long serving RG officer.

Who said anything about that assclown?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by binTravkin

I'm not saying soldiers in USN are equally computer illiterate as they were back then, but, well, technology haven't been standing still as well.

Most civilians were computer illiterate in 1988. Since then we've had an entire generation of folks raised on Nintendo and Playstation that joined the service. You're talking about a time when most USN ships navigated with sextant's, and even 10 years later most soldiers in the field used commercial GPS recievers that they bought rather than being issued.

Obviously, 20-somethings now are a lot more confident with electronics and capable of multi tasking than 20-somethings in 1989. But hey, culture and lifestyle has created the exact same level of tech-savyness today as then, am i rite?

[Agathon]

I watched the videos and listened to the recording, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard enjoys teasing dumb American hicks as much as anyone else.

If the USN doesn't like small Iranian boats coming near it, then how about they find somewhere to sail that isn't the coast of Iran.

[Patroklos]

If the USN doesn't like small Iranian boats coming near it, then how about they find somewhere to sail that isn't the coast of Iran.

Like international waters? Oh yeah...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by binTravkin
I was just saying that giving high tech to such persons is like giving a knife to a toddler - sooner or later they're gonna hurt someone or themselves.
The historical example brilliantly proves that - let's just shoot at everything in range, even if we don't know which button is the 'fire' one.

American armed forces are notorious for shooting without looking. I might not believe this, but I've had people who fought in three separate wars tell me that they steered clear of their "allies" for this very reason.

I'm not saying soldiers in USN are equally computer illiterate as they were back then, but, well, technology haven't been standing still as well.
The issue sounds especially relevant on the grounds of education quality becoming a leading subject of election debate, hinting that even US politicians admit that there's a problem.

They're all hopeless. It's not like anyone with real brains would join the navy. Hell, they've banned rum and buggery which were the only points of attraction for a lot of prospective sailors.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
They're all hopeless. It's not like anyone with real brains would join the navy.

Or study philosophy, or move to Korea to teach philosophy...?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Patroklos

Like international waters? Oh yeah...

Yeah, because we know if the Iranians had a huge fleet sailing up and down the coast of California forever, you ***** wouldn't be whining and howling at all.

I mean, everyone in the world wants a bunch of armed, self righteous, trigger-happy inbred foreign hicks sailing up and down their coast.

[Patroklos]

Yeah, because we know if the Iranians had a huge fleet sailing up and down the coast of California forever, you ***** wouldn't be whining and howling at all.

If they were doing so on the behalf of Canada, and were in league with nearly every western country in the world under a UN resolution (note they said "This is COALITION warship," and they aren't talking about Iraq) on an energy conduit we were threatening to cut the whole world off from, No.

Since none of those things are even remotely plausible, you fail.

Did we shoot down Ahmejinwhogivesa****'s plane on the way to NYC? That was even our actual airspace.