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  • Iranian aggressors act aggressive to USN

    From teh Beeb

    Iran boats 'threatened US ships'
    Five Iranian speedboats harassed three US navy ships at the weekend, approaching them and radioing a threat to blow them up, US officials say.
    The incident happened in the Strait of Hormuz, a major oil shipping route. The US said their ships were about to open fire when the Iranian boats withdrew.

    The White House warned Iran against "provocative actions that could lead to a dangerous incident in the future".

    Iran played down the event, describing it as an "ordinary occurrence".

    "The issue is resolved after both sides recognise each other," foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini said.

    Official media also reported the US statement about Iran's allegedly threatening behaviour with scepticism, implying that Washington was exaggerating the incident.

    'Serious provocation'

    The speedboats, believed to belong to Iran's Revolutionary Guards, came within about 200m of the US vessels, Pentagon officials said.

    "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes," the Iranians said in a radio transmission, according to US officials.


    The Iranian boats were operating at "distances and speeds that showed reckless, dangerous and potentially hostile intent," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman.
    He said at least some of the boats were visibly armed.

    US sailors assumed battle stations and the captain on one of the ships was about to order an attack when the Iranian boats turned away, dropping unidentified objects in the path of the vessel, US officials said.

    The confrontation, which occurred at about 0400 local time on Sunday or late on Saturday in Washington, lasted about 20 minutes, according to the US.

    The Pentagon has insisted that the three US vessels - identified as navy cruiser USS Port Royal, destroyer USS Hopper and frigate USS Ingraham - were in international waters.

    The incident follows a row that erupted last March when Iranian Revolutionary Guards captured 15 British sailors and held them for nearly two weeks.

    Iran said the crew had strayed into Iranian waters, a claim which Britain disputed.

    The Revolutionary Guards, set up in 1979 to defend the country's Islamic system, has been designated by the US as a "proliferator of weapons of mass destruction".

    Ready to respond

    The latest confrontation comes as US President George Bush is to begin a tour of the Middle East on Wednesday.

    Long-standing US-Iranian tensions remain over Iran's nuclear programme, although these have been somewhat reduced since the US intelligence community released a report in late 2007 that said Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons programme in 2003.

    The BBC's Paul Reynolds says the key question is whether this is a one-off incident or whether it heralds a more aggressive stance by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.

    The latter policy would be unexpected, given the lowering of tension over the nuclear issue, he says, but as the incident of the captured British naval personnel showed, tensions are always high.

    There is no doubt that the US is ready to respond, our correspondent adds.

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    Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

  • #2
    A cruiser, a destroyer and a frigate were threatened by a bunch of speedboats? Well, maybe if the boats were packed full of homemade explosives...dunno how thick the armor on those things is. Also, the aggressor naming convention, while warranted here, is still annoying.
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Elok
      A cruiser, a destroyer and a frigate were threatened by a bunch of speedboats? Well, maybe if the boats were packed full of homemade explosives...dunno how thick the armor on those things is.

      You, uh, ever hear of a little ship called the Cole?
      Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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      • #4
        I just heard about this too, very interesting having dealt with the same transit several times. The last time we were shadowed by a Houdong 300 yards off our starboard beam for 2 hours, no radio contact the whole time.

        A cruiser, a destroyer and a frigate were threatened by a bunch of speedboats?
        We are not at war with Iran, and the Straights are international waters. We can't just kill everything that gets near us. If Iran suprise attacks us in the straights, the chances are they will get a ship, its as simple as that. No warship would be immune to that sort of attack.
        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Patroklos
          I just heard about this too, very interesting having dealt with the same transit several times. The last time we were shadowed by a Houdong 300 yards off our starboard beam for 2 hours, no radio contact the whole time.
          We had a Vosper Mk 5 render honors as we were going one way and it was going the other.
          Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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          • #6
            We had a Vosper Mk 5 render honors as we were going one way and it was going the other.
            Was in IRN or IRCGN? The IRN are very professional, like most of the regular Iranian armed forces. I could see them doing that. We got wing waves from Iranian P-3s most of the time.

            The IRCGN on the other hand, what a bunch of ****ers
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lonestar
              You, uh, ever hear of a little ship called the Cole?
              The Cole was sneak-attacked while docked in a Yemen harbor, no? These fellows announced hostile intentions towards a mobile, armed opponent from 200m away. I don't know if they could get close enough to detonate effectively before being sunk by the ships' guns, or how quickly a boat can move when it's packed full of explosives. I have no naval experience, but they sound like different circumstances to me.
              1011 1100
              Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Elok


                The Cole was sneak-attacked while docked in a Yemen harbor, no? These fellows announced hostile intentions towards a mobile, armed opponent from 200m away. I don't know if they could get close enough to detonate effectively before being sunk by the ships' guns, or how quickly a boat can move when it's packed full of explosives. I have no naval experience, but they sound like different circumstances to me.
                US sailors assumed battle stations and the captain on one of the ships was about to order an attack when the Iranian boats turned away, dropping unidentified objects in the path of the vessel, US officials said.
                Those boxes could have been mines/homemade explosives that would have caused damage/sunk the USN vessel(s).
                Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                • #9
                  These fellows announced hostile intentions towards a mobile, armed opponent from 200m away.
                  That is par for the course when we are talking about the IRCGN. I think they Revolutionary Guard likes to think of themselves as analogous to the SS or at least the Republican Guard (it a competant military force), but they really are just a bunch of thugs driving boats stolen form the professional IRN. They are like a street gang.

                  If you listen to the radio circuits in the gulf it is all IRCGN threatening somebody, or Fillipino monkeys. God forbid you let a female do a query, you will be listening to fellatio jokes all night (if you want to have fun whisper "Allah sucks ****.")

                  I don't know if they could get close enough to detonate effectively before being sunk by the ships' guns, or how quickly a boat can move when it's packed full of explosives. I have no naval experience, but they sound like different circumstances to me.
                  In this case I don't think so. Since they did radio a threat, they would have been shot up if they had gotten closer (which apparently almost happened). But what if they hadn't radioed a threat? What if they had slowely moved in closer and closer in international waters? What if they hadn't manned their crew served weapons? A DDG/CG broadside is significant, but if they turn it suddenly a 200 yards how do you stop the momentum of a 200 ton vessel?
                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                  • #10
                    So presumably they were NOT trying for the Cole tactic, eh? Like I said, I don't know the strength of the armor on your ships, or whether they're built to take a few hull breaches without sinking (I hope so). I was just commenting on the humor of five little boats threatening to utterly destroy three ships, the smallest of which exceeds their combined weight by a substantial margin. Maybe David could match Goliath here, but it's a big threat to make. That's all I'm saying.

                    EDIT: Yeah, I expect it would be different if they used stealthier tactics, Pat. As opposed to squawking threats like five rabbits threatening a family of elephants.
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                    • #11
                      Fillipino monkeys?
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Elok
                        I was just commenting on the humor of five little boats threatening to utterly destroy three ships, the smallest of which exceeds their combined weight by a substantial margin.
                        1. i assume all five boats would make for the same target, in real attack.

                        2. What was the weight proportion of, say, the bombs that blew up the Japanese carriers at Midway, to those carriers? The weight of a kamikaze plane to a WW2 USN destroyer, etc? IIUC a ship can be destroyed by a weight of explosive much smaller than itself.
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                        • #13
                          So presumably they were NOT trying for the Cole tactic, eh? Like I said, I don't know the strength of the armor on your ships, or whether they're built to take a few hull breaches without sinking (I hope so).
                          There is no armor besides kevlar to stop shrapnel from entering critical interior spaces. The hull is just an 1/8th of an inch thick usually. They are heavily compartmentalized with automatic fire suppression systems and pumps, so as the Cole proved they can take quite a bit of holing and still survive.

                          I was just commenting on the humor of five little boats threatening to utterly destroy three ships, the smallest of which exceeds their combined weight by a substantial margin
                          And a missile is 1/8000th the weight of a destroyer, but it can destroy one with one hit. A small boat is just a slower missile.

                          There are two ways to use small boats against USN ships. One is deception/abuse of the rules of war. Here they Iranian vessel was in international waters. Now normally there is no reason to be within 1000 yards of another vessel, merchant or warship, but legally as long as you don't put another vessel in danger you can get as close as you want. This was the straights so space is tight but 200m is still unecessarily close. That could be interpreted as intent.

                          The other is numbers. They just throw enough small boats at you to overwhelm you. That is a lot easier to do in the straights because of space. However it isn't as easy as it seems. Again, a warships broadside is withering (it could be better). While a DDG only does 30 kts, it does so regardless of the seas, while small boats have to slow at the slightest hint of swells. A large ship is a stable gun platform, good like shooting from a speedboat going 40kts. Air support trumps small boats. And a dozen other things.

                          FYI, the broadside of a DDG is the following.

                          1 5" 54 caliber gun, now armed with KEAT (a shotgun type round filled with ball bearings)

                          8 .50 cal machine guns (16 if double mouted)

                          3 M60 machine guns

                          1 25mm chain gun

                          1 M79 grenade launcher.

                          1 automatic 40mm grenade launcher.

                          Fillipino monkeys?
                          Merchant mariners are a wierd lot. Being the Poly dork I am, I took endless pleasure from the many referances to bananas that accompanied the monkey jokes.
                          Last edited by Patroklos; January 7, 2008, 15:28.
                          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                          • #14
                            Isn't the Hormuz Straight Iranian home waters, so the real provoker is the US, simply by being there?
                            So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                            Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

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                            • #15
                              It's no more home waters than the Straits of Gibraltar are British home waters.

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