Benezir Bhutto Dies in Attack!

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Here is a blog post from a friend of mine. I agree with it.

http://neelofer.wordpress.com/2007/12/27/another-one-bites-the-dust/

A decent write-up.

More than anything, she was an opportunist - funding and arming extremists and diatribing against India when it suited her, and more recently, mouthing teh "OMG Pakistan will become a nuclear theocracy if a knight in shining armour doesn't save it" view popular in teh West.

Still, she was teh least unpalatable of teh "big three;" teh most corrupt, but with teh least blood on her hands.

[Wiglaf]

For those calling her martyr, she is not one. Bhutto did not die for democracy. She did not die for Pakistan’s future. She died for herself and her ambition. Twice elected as prime minister of Pakistan, Bhutto destroyed the economy as she mercilessly stole from the Pakistani people. Instead of having the courage to stand trial for her relentless corruption, she left the country imposing exile upon herself. She returned after numerous reassurances from President Pervez Musharraf and the U.S. government (no doubt) that she would not be prosecuted for her betrayal.

This a non sequitur. The fact she was a thief does not mean she did not die for democracy.

For those calling her a champion of feminism, being a woman doesn’t make someone a feminist. Under her rule, Bhutto curtailed numerous press and educational freedoms. For the majority of my life in Pakistan, Bhutto was the leader. I remember countless days of strikes where shops, schools, and offices closed down because of the lack of security in the country she oversaw.

Lack of security = she curtails freedoms? Interesting, but another non sequitur.

For calling her a champion of moderate Islam and democracy, neither democracy nor moderation exist when you prevent a free press and educational rights from existing. Nor do those exist when the citizenry is at home, unable to work or shop, because there are riots in the street due to your actions. Oh yeah, stealing from your people is also not good.

Back to the stealing.

This person does not back up assertions well at all.

[Dr Strangelove]

Pakistan isn’t what you think it is. You have no concept of its culture until you have lived it. And, I’m free to make that statement because I have lived in both countries. I know both cultures as my own. The Americans I speak of include Pakistani-Americans. The Western ways of democracy cannot be exported to countries that have been systemically oppressed for decades. You can’t just throw money at people and assume everything is going to be okay. You can’t just say, “This is a good way” and have them blindly follow it.

I don't know, look how India worked out. Come to think of it, look how the US turned out. Do you have any idea how corrupt late 18th century English society was? Just go read some of Laz's historical filth stories. First and foremost it takes a few courageous and decent visionaries to blaze the trail.

[Dr Strangelove]

You'd think that if she had stolen a billion dollars there would be a lot of conspicuous evidence by now. Do you have any idea how much you could buy with a billion dollars? If she had that much money she could have easily bought herself her own private Versailles.

[Alinestra Covelia]

She spoke at Durham University's Union Society in 2000 or so, I think.

It's too bad, she seemed like the best pick of the lot to bring Pakistan closer to normalcy.

In some ways though it was inevitable. You had that car bomb when she first arrived in the country. The only difference between that news story and this one is that the bomb and the target were in slightly less lucky places in relation to each other.

[SlowwHand]

I'm more interested in what Imran and his family think of this event, and I mean this honestly.
We can speak of it as outsiders, but what will matter to us, as outsiders, in the long run, is what Pakistani people are thinking.
I'm in Texas. Anyone can talk and debate and have all the opinions that want to have, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. You know?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well my mom was in shock when I called to tell her and thought it was a horrible thing.

You probably won't like my family's opinions on things Sloww . They liked it when Musharraf took power (because things were too corrupt under the Sharif regime), but think he has overstayed. They also think that trying to force Western style democracy in Pakistan overnight is a mistake and they need to choose their own way.

And, of course, they despise President Bush and feels he wants a War on Islam and the invasion of Iraq is part of that.

[SlowwHand]

You underestimate me. That's exactly the things I personally want to know. As an American, I (we) need to have a broader perspective.
It's kind of like theory vs. practice. Stuff is meant to be good, but it doesn't work in application.

[aneeshm]

IS
IT
CAN
BE
PAKISTANI NUCLEAR CIVIL WAR WITHOUT INVOLVING SUBCONTINENT
TIEM
NOW
PLEES?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So, when you ask where are the moderate Muslims, saying their leader in Pakistan just got killed is quite appropriate, is it not?

I mean, really, Bhutto was the premier face of a moderate Islamic leader. Strongly against terrorism, pro democracy, pro women's rights, pro human rights.

You call the instigator and organiser of a genocidal ethnic cleansing movement, responsible for the deaths or displacement of over 5,00,000 Kashmiri Hindus, to be "pro human rights"?


Are you completely, utterly nuts?



If this is the "premier" face of "moderate Muslims".........

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Agathon

I take it you are ignoring the Hindu Tigers of Tamil Elam, who pioneered such suicide attacks, and assassinated the Prime Minister of India with just such an attack a couple of decades ago.

Considering that:

a) They're motivated by ethnicity, not religion, and that
b) The assassination was over a personal grievance, not an institutional one

I fail to see the relevance of this to the context.

Also, they're not the HTTE, they're the LTTE.

Originally posted by Agathon

Muslims didn't invent this, and nor were they the first to use it against politicians.

Hashishim? Saladin?

[snoopy369]

I think the practice of suicidal assassins goes back further than the Hashishim ... I'd be surprised for that matter if there weren't some during the Sumerian days.

[Alinestra Covelia]

I'm guessing aneeshm is not a huge fan of Pakistan.

Glancing at his "country" flag, it's not hard to see why

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course I'll also point out that the Indian ruler of Indian Kashmir expressed sorrow at Bhutto's killing as well:

http://newsblaze.com/story/20071227092125kash.nb/newsblaze/TOPSTORY/Top-Stories.html

Azad paid rich tributes to Benazir, saying she would be remembered for her long struggle for return of democracy in Pakistan.

I'd imagine he'd know best if she was engaged in "ethnic cleansing" in Kashmir .

[Apocalypse]

While political assassinations go back a long time, this particular type was first used against a man named Franz Ferdinand, who was heir to the ancient empire of Austria-Hungary.