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  • Religious persecution in Great Britain

    It's sad, but when reading this article from Telegraph.co.uk, the term religious percecution comes to mind. Religious percecution is what those who leaves Islam get, even in a Western country like Great Britain. They get frozen out, they are social dead and lives with threats. This story is about Sophia, which in secret began to read the Bible. After four years her mother found the book.


    :Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die. Sofia Allam received death threats after leaving the Muslim faith for Christianity Religious persecution of the kind Sofia suffers is increasingly common in Britain today And what had brought on his transformation? He had discovered that she had left the Muslim faith in which he had raised her and become a Christian. "He said he couldn't have me in the house now that I was a Kaffir [an insulting term for a non-Muslim]," Sofia - not her real name - remembers. "He said I was damned for ever. He insulted me horribly. I couldn't recognise that man as the father who had been so kind to me as I was growing up. "My mother's transformation was even worse. She constantly beat me about the head. She screamed at me all the time. I remember saying to them, as they were shouting death threats, 'Mum, Dad - you're saying you should kill me… but I'm your daughter! Don't you realise that?'?" They did not: they insisted they wanted her out of their house. After three weeks of bullying, and just before her parents physically threw her out, Sofia left. "They put their loyalty to Islam above any love for me," she says, her voice faltering slightly. "It was such a shock. I remember thinking when they brought all my uncles round to try to intimidate me - all these men were lined up telling me how terrible a person I was, how the devil had taken me - I remember thinking, how can this be happening? Because this isn't Lahore in Pakistan. This is Dagenham in London! This is Britain!"


    It's Great Britain, but it's a different Great Britain. It's seems like we don't mind accepting two different standards.


    Religious persecution of the kind Sofia suffers, however, is increasingly common in Britain today. It is hard to get an accurate notion of the scale of the problem, not least because very few of the people who leave Islam are willing to complain to the police about the way they are treated. "Intimidation is very widespread and pretty effective," says Maryam Namazie, a spokesperson for the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain. She believes that many of the deaths classified as "honour killings" are actually murders of people who have renounced Islam. "I get threatened all the time: emails, letters, phone calls," she says. "When I returned home this afternoon, for example, there was a death threat waiting for me on my answering machine…" She laughs nervously. "A lot of them aren't serious, but occasionally they are. I went to the police about one set of threats. They took a statement from me but that was it - they never contacted me again." That treatment is in sharp contrast to the seriousness with which the Dutch and German police responded when members of the Council of Ex-Muslims in those countries made complaints to the police about death threats. "The heads of the Dutch and German organisations are today both living under police protection," Ms Namazie explains. Last week, it was reported that the daughter of a British imam was living under police protection, after receiving death threats from her family for having left Islam.


    But it's not only extreme religious families which reacts like this. Sophia's family was tolerant. They accepted that she clothed Western and that she declined marrying the one's she was presented.


    Muslim apostates threatened over Christianity Last Updated: 2:40am GMT 12/12/2007 Page 2 of 3 "My father could not be described as an extremist," insists Sofia, who is now 31. "We read the Koran and prayed regularly together, but he never insisted on my wearing Islamic dress and he was quite happy that I went to the local comprehensive, which was all girls, but not by any means dominated by Muslims." There were conflicts when Sofia's parents tried to arrange a marriage for her at the age of 18, but they seemed to accept her decision to continue her education. "They even let me go away to university," she explains. "I appreciated how difficult it was for them to grant me that freedom, and I was very grateful for it. In the event, though, I only lasted three months - I just got so homesick that I had to come back to Mum and Dad." Sofia got a job in a hotel and quickly became a manager. Her interest in Christianity was entirely self-generated. She acquired a Bible, which she hid in her bedroom. But four years ago, her mother found it. "She confronted me one morning with, 'Are you still a Muslim?' I had to tell the truth: I didn't think I was. From that moment on, she basically disowned me. My father was shocked and saddened. But the reality was that my parents behaved to me as if they thought it would be much better if I was dead."


    Public muslim leaders in GB condemns death penalty for apostates. But it seems they do little to prevent chauvenistic tendencies amond the youth. I heard of a gallup in which 37 percent said they supported the death penalty!


    There is considerable support, from the Koran and other sacred Islamic texts, for that position - which may explain why, out of the 57 Islamic states in the world today, seven have a legal code that punishes Muslims who leave the religion with death. That number may soon increase: Pakistan is currently considering a Bill that would make apostasy a capital crime for men and one carrying a sentence of imprisonment for women. As it is, ordinary Pakistanis take the law into their own hands and kill Muslim apostates. The same thing happens in Turkey where, earlier this year, two people were killed for "having turned away from Islam". Patrick Sookhdeo was born a Muslim, but later converted to Christianity. He is now international director of the Barnabas Fund, an organisation that aims to research and to ameliorate the conditions of Christians living in countries hostile to their religion. He notes that "all four schools of Sunni law, as well as the Shia variety, call for the death penalty for apostates. Most Muslim scholars say that Muslim religious law - sharia - requires the death penalty for apostasy. "In 2004, Prince Charles called a meeting of leading Muslims to discuss the issue," adds Dr Sookhdeo. "I was there. All the Muslim leaders at that meeting agreed that the penalty in sharia is death. The hope was that they would issue a public declaration repudiating that doctrine, but not one of them did."



    The tone has changed and got harder, Sophia says. Loyalty and chauvinism has become strong factors in the muslim societies. If you "break free", you're a traitor. Not much democratic, that's for sure.
    Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
    I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
    Also active on WePlayCiv.

  • #2
    Isn´t it even part of the Qu´ran that apostates deserved to be condemned or even killed?
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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    • #3
      As I have understood it, yes.

      But I don't accept that kind of treatment in a democracy, thank you.
      Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
      I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
      Also active on WePlayCiv.

      Comment


      • #4
        But why not?
        Don´t you think that eve4ry group in society deserves its little rituals and traditions?

        But, well, to get earnest again:
        We also have our problems with honor killings in germany, although instead of people leaving islam they normally done against daughters who date christians/don´t date the man selected for them or who clothe in western style or against wifes who leave their husbands.
        And yes, I think they should be prosecuted with the full capabilities of the police and deserve the highest punishment that are provided by law against everyone involved (which in honor killings normally seems to be the whole family)
        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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        • #5
          PLease don;t turn into anesshm...
          You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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          • #6
            It can only be good for muslim society (as well as for society as a whole) if the elements that show ******* tendencies (for example by turning against their own wifes/offspring just because "honor demands it") are removed from it.
            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

            Comment


            • #7
              Who, me? No worries. Last I checked this was my first thread of this case too.

              This case had worried me whatever the faith or lack thereof she had embraced, it's the whole concept of threatening and disowning one's own child just because it choose another path than oneself. If they had held it to not like it and try to talk her out of it, but leave it at that if she chose to remain in her new faith, it would be okay. But this is a completely different league. I feel for her and everyone in her situation, it must be horrible.
              Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
              I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
              Also active on WePlayCiv.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Proteus_MST
                It can only be good for muslim society (as well as for society as a whole) if the elements that show ******* tendencies (for example by turning against their own wifes/offspring just because "honor demands it") are removed from it.
                Yeah, honor killing should be punished strictly. I was scared when one of our better known lawyers(which admittedly often comes with.......odd thoughts on various matters) proposed that honour killing should give discount in murder cases, since it obviously was our fault that honour killings happen, since we confuse those poor males with our alien culture and morale.
                Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
                I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
                Also active on WePlayCiv.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Proteus_MST
                  Isn´t it even part of the Qu´ran that apostates deserved to be condemned or even killed?
                  TIme for some bible quoting. Deuteronomy chapter 13, verse 6-10 (http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/B...uteronomy.html)

                  6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
                  7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
                  8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
                  9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
                  10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
                  http://www.hardware-wiki.com - A wiki about computers, with focus on Linux support.

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                  • #10
                    The good thing is, this was made moot by Jesus' sacrifice a long time ago, and you will find no Christian who do honour killing. Or, in a world of 6 billion, I'm sure you can find a murderer or two among us Christians, but it's not a part of Christian belief at least.

                    But really, that is not the topic of this thread.
                    Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
                    I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
                    Also active on WePlayCiv.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      On topic, doesn't the brits have a long tradition of religious persecution ?
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

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                      • #12
                        Yes.

                        For example I make fun of all religion for its utter stupidity.

                        I guess that makes me an equal opportunity persecutor...
                        Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nikolai
                          The good thing is, this was made moot by Jesus' sacrifice a long time ago, and you will find no Christian who do honour killing. Or, in a world of 6 billion, I'm sure you can find a murderer or two among us Christians, but it's not a part of Christian belief at least.

                          But really, that is not the topic of this thread.
                          But it was OK to do so in the thousands of years preceding Christ?

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                          • #14
                            Who cares? Muslims do it, Christians don't.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MOBIUS
                              Yes.

                              For example I make fun of all religion for its utter stupidity.

                              I guess that makes me an equal opportunity persecutor...
                              Yeah, but your problem is that noone - theist or not - would care if you were stoned to death.

                              There might even be a little if such happened.

                              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                              Steven Weinberg

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