VA Proposal would ban all non-English government materials

[Imran Siddiqui]

Haw haw... pwned.

Besides, Americans (I'm guilty a little bit myself) seem to think everyone else should be able to speak English, regardless of how widespread English is actually spoken.

[David Floyd]

Costa Rica and Panama both went out of their way to make sure everything was available in English. The extra effort has meant a lot of American retirees have moved their to enjoy the warm sunny weather and low cost of living during their retirement years. Being so welcoming to foreigners has really helped their economies.

I'm not talking about Costa Rica and Panama. They had a very specific reason to embrace English. I mean, Panama is one of the banking shelter-type places for fat cats, and Costa Rica has a pretty good tourism industry going.

Look at Mexico and tell me how much English is spoken there.

Also, just exactly how many people from Spanish speaking countries are going to be able to afford to "move to the US to enjoy their retirement", a benefit our nation will miss out on if we don't embrace the Spanish language?

[David Floyd]

Also, Imran, I don't think everyone else should speak English. If I go to China, I don't expect to be catered to in English. Same in Mexico. If I live in a foreign nation, I certainly don't expect them to change for me.

I just expect everyone in THIS country to speak English.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Look at Mexico and tell me how much English is spoken there.

When you cross the border from California into Mexico the billboards change from Spanish into English.

[David Floyd]

Are you intentionally missing the point?

How many Mexicans have to dial 1 for Spanish? How many Mexican government services are provided bilingually? Also, billboards are not government sponsored. No one is saying we should pass a law against individuals and companies putting up billboards in whatever language they want. That'd be silly.

[Zkribbler]

"cute" smilie! See, the "cute" smilie! It was a joke.

[Kuciwalker]

How many Mexicans have to dial 1 for Spanish?

How many native English speakers live in Mexico?

[Kuciwalker]

Why should local governments be forbidden from doing what their citizens want?

[David Floyd]

How many native English speakers live in Mexico?

Not many. Let's face it, for the most part they wouldn't want to. Native Spanish speakers want to live here, because it's to their economic/health/long-term benefit. It's not too much to ask that they speak English in exchange for being able to take advantage of the benefits of living in the US.

Why should local governments be forbidden from doing what their citizens want?

I'd be interested to see the results of an actual vote on whether government services should be provided in languages other than English. I suspect that many Americans are sick and tired of having to press 1 for English, and are sick of immigrants choosing not to learn English.

[LordShiva]

Does David Floyd really claim to be a libertarian?

[David Floyd]

There's nothing un-Libertarian about having an official language. No one says you HAVE to speak it, just that if you want to effectively communicate, you do.

[LordShiva]

I just find your collectivist attitude - that Teh People are being generous to teh immigrants for providing them with a reason to come here - somewhat at odds with a libertarian description of teh situation according to which immigrants come and are able to live here as a result of mutually beneficial trades with other private individuals (employers, landlords, grocers, etc.). Also, to teh extent that a libertarian agrees with teh provision of government services financed through taxes, it's odd that one would call for these services to then be withheld on the basis of what language teh recipient speaks.

[David Floyd]

I just find your collectivist attitude - that Teh People are being generous to teh immigrants for providing them with a reason to come here - somewhat at odds with a libertarian description of teh situation according to which immigrants come and are able to live here as a result of mutually beneficial trades with other private individuals (employers, landlords, grocers, etc.).

First off, stop using "teh" - it makes it impossible not to be distracted

Secondly, I'm talking about reality. The reality is, Spanish speakers come to the US because of opportunity. We don't, by and large, move to places like Mexico because of the opportunity it offers us. Immigrants are coming here because they see a tangible benefit to themselves. What I'm saying is that, sure, let them in. I'm fine with that. But don't bend over backwards to make things easy on them, either - don't inconvenience me, just so some immigrant who hasn't bothered to learn English can make a better life for themselves, or however you want to phrase it. I'm also not saying they HAVE to learn English - we're just not going to make not learning English an attractive option.

Also, to teh extent that a libertarian agrees with teh provision of government services financed through taxes, it's odd that one would call for these services to then be withheld on the basis of what language teh recipient speaks.

In fact, I don't agree with the provision of most of these government services. But when we're discussing reality, the reality is that they aren't going away. Also, I'm not advocating withholding services on the basis of language - people can speak any language they want! I'm just advocating that English be the official language in this country, and that if you want easy access to the benefits of living here, you better learn the damn language.

It's not an unreasonable expectation.

[LordShiva]

I'm sure everybody, including teh immigrants themselves, would agree that learning English is in everyone's best interests. But this thread is about a state government banning local governments from offering services in other languages.

[David Floyd]

State governments have the power to ban local governments from doing all sorts of things, just like the federal government prevents state governments from doing all sorts of things.