Tell me about Huckabee

[Dinner]

The housing bubble will leave a very long hang over and we might see around 2 million foreclosures before all is said and done. The main cause of this was laxed regulation (lending rules were continually watered down over the last 20 years) and a refusal to step in with responsible regulations when it was clear speculation was causing a bubble which was distorting the market.

I'm afraid that is an issue which goes far beyond immigration and is really rooted in politicians ridgedly holding to ideological dogma (small government, less regulation) even after everyone knew in reality that the market was being distorted and new regulations were needed to curb such distortions. It didn't help that the finance industry gives so much money to individual politicians so the politicians naturally want to do what ever it takes to keep donors happy and the campaign checks coming in. Even if it means not taking action when they know action is needed.

[Apocalypse]

Huckabee still seems like the least Xenophobic outside of McCain. I want to vote Republican, but it is going to be difficult to this election. Being from Texas, the policies of all the Republicans outside of those two just seem like retarded pandering.

The whole minister thing never really bothered me since Rudy pandered quite a bit to evangelicals.

[Dinner]

To his credit I believe Huckabee was the last major Republican candidate to finally sign on to the "no amnesty pledge" meaning that absolutely no path to legal status will be offered to the 12 million or so people who live here, have citizen children, have jobs, etc...

He held out for good policy even as all of the other Republican candidates were playing the race card and trying to get noticed that way. Unfortunately, Huckabee did finally cave just recently. The reality is the pro-business wing of Republican Party and the wing made up of home town "real Americans" (translation: red necks who like Rush and don't like the idea of Mexicans "stealing" their construction jobs) are going to end up butting heads over immigration policy. Business needs lots of labor at affordable prices so they want a legal way to get as many immigrants here as possible (or failing that to maintain the status quo of officials not enforcing immigration laws) while the red neck wing feels threatened by the new comers and fears for his job & wages. Heck, there is likely also a fair amount of racism mixed in with the anti-immigration people as well.

I suspect how this will play out is Republican politicians won't take any action prior to the election (they want to keep this wedge issue alive and besides the Dems control Congress so they can't pass jack) and during the election they'll try to beat up immigration as an issue into a fever pitch hoping it will be enough to over come the negative taint Bush has left on the party. Then after the smoke clears and the election is over the pro-business wing will cut a deal with the majority Dems and get real comprehensive immigration reform done which makes life harder on illegals & their employers, but, also makes it a lot easier to immigrate legally. There is already enough votes to force this through and Bush has said he'll sign it but Republican officials don't want to flip flop until after the election is over.

[DinoDoc]

Might I ask what is xenophobic about wanting to enforce the law?

[Apocalypse]

Because the laws are bad. That's why they aren't enforced in border states. Members of my National Guard unit from VA volunteered to go to the border on a mission in Arizona. Being from an area with no Hispanics, they were pretty pumped to enforce the border. They got there and they were basically told to not do anything for a few months. The border patrol that did actually do things only did them regarding drug trafficking. They just didn't care about immigrants in general. The laws just don't allow enough immigrants to come in that the job market wants.

[DinoDoc]

Enforcing the law is the first step to changing it, Apoc. Once you have people (or at least most of them) convinced that they aren't facing a repeat of the debacle Reagan shoved down thier throats, you'll actually get the reforms you seek.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The housing bubble will leave a very long hang over and we might see around 2 million foreclosures before all is said and done.

And it is only going to get worse as the government keeps trying to defer what is coming.

meaning that absolutely no path to legal status will be offered to the 12 million or so people who live here, have citizen children, have jobs, etc...

Well aside from all the current legal paths to citizenship.

[Apocalypse]

The resources to enforce the borders like xenophobic northerners imagine don't exist. People in border states don't want them.

We could have had reform if xenophobes wouldn't have sunk McCain's bill.

[Whoha]

Even the Mexicans didn't want McCain's bill.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Might I ask what is xenophobic about wanting to enforce the law?

A very good argument can be made that the motivation for the laws was xenophobic in nature. Given how strict the laws are and how low the yearly legal immigration allowable quotas are, that the government drags out the immigration process normally to around 5 years (remember it took my friend 7 years) and sometime more, and for the privalege of being abused by a government beaucrat we're asking poor people to come up with sums greater then 2 or 3 or even 4 years salary.

I think most people agree that the current system is designed to prevent people entering the US. Over the years the system was so good at keeping needed workers out that Congressmen figured out ways create back door ways, like the H1B program and other employer sponsored programs just so we could get skilled workers out of the INS bog. The system was originally made so restrictive because slashing immigration was something both unionist Democrats and nativist Republicans could agree on. But businesses immediately started bleating about increased costs and threatening to close down or move operations over seas unless they got increased access to labor so Congressmen tried to liberalize the system only to find most liberalizations blocked by the same unionists & nativist tag team from both sides of the aisle.

That's how we defaulted into this don't enforce the law status quo we have now. Politicians were to cowardly to just admit to voters what the situation really was nor did they want to piss off the vested interests each side relied upon. There was limited reform in the mid 80's after intense lobbying by high tech firms which resulted in the H1B program but the rest of the time it's been don't ask don't tell for illegals.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Given how strict the laws are and how low the yearly legal immigration allowable quotas are,

Are you sure you don't mean the complete opposite of this?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Enforcing the law is the first step to changing it, Apoc. Once you have people (or at least most of them) convinced that they aren't facing a repeat of the debacle Reagan shoved down thier throats, you'll actually get the reforms you seek.

Naw, very little change will happen enforcement wise between now and when Bush leaves office yet we will most likely see major comprehensive reform of the system making the process easier. Other then a few 1960's left overs still wedded to unions most Dems have always been for comprehensive reform as has Bush so after the election the Dems just need to find a few reasonable pro-Business Republicans (and there are a good number of those in Congress) and comprehensive reform will be reality. I'm especially confident as Bush's support gives even skittish Republicans an excuse to flip flop and do what they know is best for the country.

[DinoDoc]

We saw what happened when the government tried that while making no real attempt at enforcement, Liardin.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Whoha


Are you sure you don't mean the complete opposite of this?

The number of legal immigrants allowed in the country per year through the regular INS system is actually fairly low. People can get around the regular INS system using a number of back door programs exempted from the regular system. They can be employer sponsored and have a highly technical skill the government says the US is short of. You can marry and American citizen or be a foreigner who is a family member of an American citizen (child, brother, parent, etc). If you are declared a refugee/political prisoner/other protected group. Or if you join the US military then you can get back doored and avoid the INS's main system. Just about everyone else has to use our broken regular INS system which literally only lets in a few thousand people per year legally.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Liardin.

DuffusDoc