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  • #136
    Originally posted by DanS
    Have you been to Las Vegas lately? Huge density on the Strip (City Center and other residential high-rises to revitalize the area on the Strip between the old part of the Strip and the new).

    The traffic on I15 and I215 well and truly sucks. They're going to build a new airport on I15 as well, which means that traffic will well and truly suck for dozens of miles.
    Huge density of what? You need a good, dense permanent residential population to make a subway system viable. Who's going to ride a subway along the Strip, especially in enough numbers and with enough regularity, to make it work?

    And as I'm sure you're aware, bad traffic in and of itself is a rather meaningless driver of the need for something like a subway line. The terrible traffic in that area is pretty much a result of the overwhelming majority of development being focused on a single road with limited access points from areas further afield. I mean, if you're driving in from SoCal, it's not like you have any real choice but to use I15.
    "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
    "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
    "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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    • #137
      Originally posted by Jon Miller
      BTW, an outer line would ease a lot of the congestion that the downtown area feels. There are a lot of people who come in on one outer line, switch trains in the middle, and go out on another outerline... the answer isn't to have express trains, but rather to have an outerline (purple line).

      JM

      If im going from say, Bethesda, to Alexandria, Im probably still going through DC. If Im going from Bethesda to the Pentagon Im almost certainly still going through DC. Bethesda to Ballston, toss-up. Bethesda to Vienna, well sure, then I take the Purple line, but how many of those are there? The main justification for the Purple line, AFAICT, is to relieve the Cabin John bridge, relieve congestion at Tysons, and maybe stimulate "smart growth at some of the other key interchanges, like Silver Spring and New Carrolton.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #138
        Originally posted by DanS

        Lets reverse them

        DC needs something serving Georgetown and Wisconsin Avenue. Virginia will need to decouple either the blue line or the Dulles line from the orange line because the tunnel's getting crowded.


        Probably. Though thats not a "wisconsin avenue line", its more of an M street line, running east west across the district.


        DC needs something along 16th Street/Georgia Avenue. Maryland needs something along Colesville Road. Cross the red line at Silver Spring station.


        Unlike the Rosslyn-Foggy Bottom tunnel, the inner Green line is NOT crowded as far as I know. So even if and when you build a Colesville line (and I dont get the impression its a huge priority in Maryland) you can probably run it down the existing green line for some time. Revisit in 2015.




        There are other possibilities like this. Doesn't take too much imagination to come up with options that make some sense.


        Its very easy to draw lines on a map connecting interesting places, even focusing on congested arteries. Its much harder making the ridership numbers make sense.

        Though this region certainly has a better track record than most.
        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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        • #139
          Houston's finally getting a plausible mass transit system. We have one light-rail line going North-South through the city, but we've finally decided to build another four lines. My asshat Congressman (Culberson - R) has been blocking the addition for years. 'Course, I'll (hopefully) graduate and be out of here by the time time they're finished (2012)...
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

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          • #140
            Originally posted by Ramo
            Houston's finally getting a plausible mass transit system. We have one light-rail line going North-South through the city, but we've finally decided to build another four lines. My asshat Congressman (Culberson - R) has been blocking the addition for years. 'Course, I'll (hopefully) graduate and be out of here by the time time they're finished (2012)...
            Yahbut your state government wants to build the mother of all intercity rail-system/highway systems, right? Im sure DanS could go salivate about that for a while
            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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            • #141
              Originally posted by DanS
              Have you been to Las Vegas lately?
              I haven't been. Last time I was there, I saw announcements for the then-proposed monorail. I later heard in costs $800 million/mile while most monorail systems costs $25-50 million/mile.

              (In comparison, L.A.'s proposed "subway to the sea" is projected to cost $500 million/mile.)

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              • #142
                Originally posted by lord of the mark
                Its very easy to draw lines on a map connecting interesting places, even focusing on congested arteries. Its much harder making the ridership numbers make sense.

                Though this region certainly has a better track record than most.
                Let's revisit the history here. Almost all of the stations and lines inside the city not in downtown were built without a care to whether the ridership made sense (the exception being the red line in NW).

                Well, it just so happens that 30 years later, those stations are attracting massive amounts of investment. The inner green line is one such case. Navy Yard/Ballpark is attracting $5 to $10 billion in investment. U Street and Columbia Heights are attracting something less, but not much less. Won't be long before the inner green line is packed.

                Subways inside dense cities are extremely expensive. But dense cities throw off a huge amount of wealth and need not apologize for the expenses. Subways are part of the package for dense cities. You need to look at this more like a developer does.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                • #143
                  lotm, a decent passenger rail system servicing urban centers in the state would be fantastic, but that's pretty far from the focus of the monstrosity...

                  On a completely unrelated matter, Republicans, please nominate Rick Perry for Veep...
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

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                  • #144
                    Originally posted by lord of the mark
                    Yahbut your state government wants to build the mother of all intercity rail-system/highway systems, right? Im sure DanS could go salivate about that for a while
                    You are deliberately misconstruing my opinion. Intercity rail makes little sense, except in the NE corridor.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #145
                      Originally posted by DanS
                      You are deliberately misconstruing my opinion. Intercity rail makes little sense, except in the NE corridor.
                      Arguably, high-speed San Diego/Los Angeles/San Franciso/Sacrament and/or a Los Angeles/Las Vegas lines would also be economically feasible.

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                      • #146
                        Originally posted by Kontiki
                        Huge density of what? You need a good, dense permanent residential population to make a subway system viable. Who's going to ride a subway along the Strip, especially in enough numbers and with enough regularity, to make it work?
                        Not only the intra-Strip travelers. Las Vegas is a unique town. It relies on its airport to do business to a much greater degree than any other city. People are going to get pissed off that they have to pay $75 for a cab ride each way to/from the new airport.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                        • #147
                          Originally posted by Zkribbler
                          Arguably, high-speed San Diego/Los Angeles/San Franciso/Sacrament and/or a Los Angeles/Las Vegas lines would also be economically feasible.
                          I doubt it. Well, the LA-LV line might make sense, if it's largely funded by LV and has a stop at the new airport.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                          • #148
                            Casino trains
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                            • #149
                              Originally posted by DanS
                              I doubt it.
                              You might be right. At bullet-train speeds, a train would take about 2 hours to get from L.A. to Sacramento. A flight takes just over 1 hour. Trains would have to be much cheaper or offer some convenience that planes don't in order to be competitive.

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                              • #150
                                Originally posted by DanS
                                Tis true. Buses suck rocks. I'm not buying LOTM's salespitch.
                                The bus system in Pittsburgh works pretty well, IME.

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