WGA strike taking its toll

[Ninot]

Originally posted by VetLegion
If this was a European country there would be a law to the effect that nobody is allowed to write for television/movies unless he is a member of the writers' union/guild.

Since in the USA I assume no such law exists, I don't understand how writers have any bargaining power at all considering they're trivial to replace. There are probably tens of thousands of people who would like to be writers and have the prerequisite skills.

What gives?

the actors and show runners who are on the picket line supporting the writers probably have something to do with the "Gives"

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Also the fact that writers are not entirely fungible, either.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
It's what they're doing to an extent, but as I understand it the big sticking point is residuals for 'new media' sales. Right now the writers don't get residuals if you download a TV show from iTunes, etc. It's a new revenue stream for the studios that the writers are cut out of despite the fact they would normally get a cut of other delivery mechanisms. On that point, at least, it's not about getting a bigger piece of the pie, it's about getting the same percentage of a bigger pie.

Exactly. And especially going into the future, download revenues will exponentially rise, the writers will be missing out on a TON of money that the studios will be making from their work.

I definitely support the WGA on this.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by VetLegion
If this was a European country there would be a law to the effect that nobody is allowed to write for television/movies unless he is a member of the writers' union/guild.

Since in the USA I assume no such law exists, I don't understand how writers have any bargaining power at all considering they're trivial to replace. There are probably tens of thousands of people who would like to be writers and have the prerequisite skills.

What gives?

What, we don't have a mandatory union membership...? Not that I've heard of at least. An replacing writers aren't that easy. Do you think anyone can write an episode of Simpsons or Heroes? There's a reason why the writers are highly paid you know.

[snoopy369]

I'd generally agree, Imran, but I'm not aware of what the Studios are currently offering the WGA... knowing Unions they could well be asking for an unreasonably high cut. (Why do writers get a cut of residuals, but not the key grips? Oh, right...)

Frankly I think writers - and actors - should always have a choice, flat fee or lower fee plus a cut (of everything). I think you'd end up with a lot taking the flat fee (say, $50,000 flat, or $10,000 + 0.5% where 0.5%*mean expected profits over 20 years = 50,000 for total expected of 60,000 but spread out). (It's certainly possible they do this now of course...)

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Zoid


What, we don't have a mandatory union membership...? Not that I've heard of at least. An replacing writers aren't that easy. Do you think anyone can write an episode of Simpsons or Heroes? There's a reason why the writers are highly paid you know.

Some states allow mandatory union contracts (ie, the contract stipulates that they must only hire union employees). It's not a state law, but it is part of the union contract. No idea about California but my gut feeling says they probably have this (they're fairly pro-union, I think). "Closed Shop" states is the normal terminology for this. I think it's about 30:20 closedpen but I'm not entirely sure. Illinois is a closed shop state, but that's the only one I'm sure about.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I'd generally agree, Imran, but I'm not aware of what the Studios are currently offering the WGA... knowing Unions they could well be asking for an unreasonably high cut. (Why do writers get a cut of residuals, but not the key grips? Oh, right...)

IIRC, the studios have offered the WGA absolutely nothing on online distributions. Saying the are "promotional", even though they run ads (meaning they get money).

It's an absolutely ridiculous position. If they were given them something, it may be easier to sympathize with the studios. But they aren't.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


IIRC, the studios have offered the WGA absolutely nothing on online distributions. Saying the are "promotional", even though they run ads (meaning they get money).

It's an absolutely ridiculous position. If they were given them something, it may be easier to sympathize with the studios. But they aren't.

What about on iTunes type things, though? I actually think there are reasonable arguments the studios can make about the 'free' online distros, in that it is fairly hard to track views (how many view it briefly and then leave); they could I suppose offer a cut of the advertising money but my understanding was the writers wanted per-view not advertising %. I would think the far majority of the money is in iTunes style distribution, which if they offered a reasonable cut off of that I would think they should be able to reach a deal...

I would be curious if the free flash distros profit the studios (as opposed to breaking even). I doubt they make much off of the commercials ... I wonder if one of the issues is that the studios don't want to make this part public. On the other hand, if they're making nohting net (losing money or breaking even), then do the writers earn money here? They would on television reruns (even if the rerun loses money, not that they generally do), so this could be a sticky point I suspect.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
What about on iTunes type things, though? I actually think there are reasonable arguments the studios can make about the 'free' online distros, in that it is fairly hard to track views (how many view it briefly and then leave); they could I suppose offer a cut of the advertising money but my understanding was the writers wanted per-view not advertising %. I would think the far majority of the money is in iTunes style distribution, which if they offered a reasonable cut off of that I would think they should be able to reach a deal...

They aren't being offered anything on iTunes purchases either. The writers are asking residuals on per view, but that shouldn't be too difficult to figure out based on ad numbers.

[snoopy369]

See my DanS above ... If they're not making money (or don't expect to always make money) I think it is a bit sticky there. I'd support the writers earning a percent of profits here, but if flash views barely break even (or lose money) then I think it is an accurate statement to say it's promotional.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, they do make ad revenue on them. I assume it's something.

[snoopy369]

It's a matter of whether the ad revenue is greater than the streaming costs I assume it will be eventually, but up front it might not be (also depends on how you amortize the up front costs of course...)

Either way they certainly should make something off of the iTunes type (pay per download) downloads...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Some states allow mandatory union contracts (ie, the contract stipulates that they must only hire union employees). It's not a state law, but it is part of the union contract. No idea about California but my gut feeling says they probably have this (they're fairly pro-union, I think). "Closed Shop" states is the normal terminology for this. I think it's about 30:20 closedpen but I'm not entirely sure. Illinois is a closed shop state, but that's the only one I'm sure about.

When I said we I meant "Europe". Jobs for union members only is only practised in the US AFAIK...

[snoopy369]

Ahh, okay. I somehow skipped who actually posted that

[Zoid]