A Question About Highschools in the USA

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Japher
CA public schools are messed up, UCs excepted.

True. During my lifetime, we've gone from No. 1 to No. 49 in the nation. We climbed back up to No. 45 under Gray Davis, but under Arnold, we're slipping back down again.

[Arrian]

#49? California? By what measure?

-Arrian

[Brizey]

One current trend for school funding is "Robin Hood" laws, where a portion of the funds collected in wealthier school districts are redistributed to poorer districts.

One thing the other USA people have not talked about yet are parochial schools. These are usually Catholic schools that are private. They often use public school bussing (which is provided for free--they take a lot of burden off of the public schools so it is a good trade). They are typically not as expensive as a pure for profit private school.

The competition between school districts is mostly a suburban deal. The stark reality is that most large cities public schools suck, so the competition is between suburbs. It really doesn't become a "poor" vs "rich" thing--more of a "sort of rich" vs "sort of rich" thing.

I pay about US$6000 per year in propery taxes that goes directly to the school districts. Here in Texas, the school districts are independent political entities, so the money is not filtered through the local government. Napkin math: If I live here for another 50 years, I will pay about $300,000 in taxes for the schools. If I have two kids, that is about $150,000 per kid, or about $12000 per year, very close to what a good private college education costs. I think that if I could keep all that money that I could give my kids a better education than they will get at the local public schools.

[Kuciwalker]

Re: A Question About Highschools in the USA

Originally posted by VetLegion
In articles I read on the internet it is often mentioned how quality of nearby schools has an effect on housing prices and general desirability of the area. I don't know how the US system works, so I'd like to clear this up.

I have gotten this impression that Americans are in some way "tied to the land" in the sense that their kids can only attend schools in some radius, so if you want your kids to attend a good highschool on the other end of the city, you have to move there. Correct? Or can you freely choose the schools your kids will attend? Both primary and secondary? If yes, why such pressure on moving to a good neighbourhood, when you can easily ship your kids to some distance with bus or by car?

Also, what happens when highschools have more applicants than places?

Generally you don't have applicants to HS here, people are pretty much assigned to a school based on geographic location. The exceptions are private high schools (where you pay money to attend, and there might be entrence examinations) and public magnet schools (like the one I went to) where they draw from a large region and have entrance exams.

[Kuciwalker]

The primary failing of the American public school system is that it doesn't provide sufficient opportunities for the smart students to get better educations. I was one of the lucky ones who had that kind of opportunity (when my dad changed jobs, my HS was one of the main reasons we picked the DC area).

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The primary failing of the American public school system is that it doesn't provide sufficient opportunities for the smart students to get better educations. I was one of the lucky ones who had that kind of opportunity (when my dad changed jobs, my HS was one of the main reasons we picked the DC area).

I agree, if I had had more opportunities preCollege I could have advanced a lot more.

JM

[Aeson]

I was lucky enough to go to a High School that required a bunch of retarded classes for graduation... of which I got most of them out of the way my Freshmen year. Then we moved out-of-state and the new High School I went to had it's own set of incompatible retarded prerequisites classes for graduation that most of the Freshmen had already taken care of... so I got to take them my Sophomore year, meaning I had the opportunity to choose 0 elective courses my Junior and Senior years, just so I could get all the required junk out of the way.

Not that it would have mattered much. The school districts I attended were terribly underfunded, and there wasn't much in the way of advanced/elective courses. A couple languages, AP English... that was about it.

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by Arrian
Umm... I rather think that California is not the only state to redistribute money.

quote:
Spending Per Pupil This District State Average
Total per pupil expenditures $15,231 $12,263
Breakdown By Expenditure
Instructional 64% 64%
Student and staff support 8% 9%
Administration 11% 10%
Other expenditures 16% 17%
Source: NCES, 2004-2005


The city? Hartford, CT. Home of awful public schools. Look at the per student expenditure. How can that be, if there is no redistribution? Hartford is poor. Yet the district spends more per pupil than the state average.

-Arrian

Isn't this the best argument ever for a voucher system.

Give these parents a $15,000 voucher (not cash) for educational expenses if they choose to opt out of the public school system and I bet they could do better than the public school system.

In Detroit it is over $10,000/student and Detroit's High School graduation rate is 22%. THAT IS CRIMINAL.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Well here where I live (Croatia, Zagreb (pop ~1 million)) you can choose any highschool you want and commute there. If there are more applicants than positions, then there is a scoring system based on grades in primary school.

So what if you lived close to a really good high school but were unable to go there because applicants from other areas beat you out yet were unable to afford to commute to another high school?

In the US distances are probably greater than in Croatia. The county I live in is about 50 miles across. It has 3 high schools. If someone was forced to go to a school out of his district that might entail a long drive, Furthermore there are counties nearby that are equally big but have only one high school. While states make some contribution to local schools most of the money comes from the county or city taxes. How fair would it be to support a local school with your taxes but not be able to go there.

[Pekka]

dr strangelove, I think the point was that it's weird that it is the way it goes. People not affording to commute, well maybe they shouldn't have to pay full price for bus fair? How do the school busses work now, they aren't free.

Second of all, it's not a problem if you don't pay for the school next to you, but all schools, or schools in some greater area with many schools.

Is it fair that rich kids get good schools and poor kids don't? I think this is a bigger problem, and would be because of the way the schools are financed.

[Kuciwalker]

How do the school busses work now, they aren't free.

They're free for the students. They're paid out of the school budget.

[Pekka]

And do you think all the students have to pay from their own pockets if the commuting is subsidized, when you can use public busses as well, "for free"? Or by school budget. Makes little difference. Except for people who are addicted to the colour yellow.

[Kuciwalker]

I failed to parse that last post. Try fixing your grammar so that it's comprehensible, please.

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Deity Dude


Isn't this the best argument ever for a voucher system.

Give these parents a $15,000 voucher (not cash) for educational expenses if they choose to opt out of the public school system and I bet they could do better than the public school system.

In Detroit it is over $10,000/student and Detroit's High School graduation rate is 22%. THAT IS CRIMINAL.

Only 22% graduate?

[Victor Galis]

This is generally true with a few caveats:

In GA, or at least in my county we had a program called Majority to Minority. In this program if you were part of the majority at your school (defined in terms of: White and other or black), you could request to go to a different school where you were in the minority. The buses that did this would often take people nearly an hour away.
We also had "magnet" schools, where they concentrated smart people so they could offer more advanced classes. I actually went to a school 8 miles away as a result, rather than the school in my district.

Also, when I was living in Boston, I did manage to get a waiver to attend a school outside my district. I'd been going to a school, moved out of the district, but I wanted not to change schools. In this case though, my old school was still in walking distance.