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**Riesstiu IV** · October 21, 2007, 10:57

You know, the first time I glanced at the thread title I thought it said, Former KGB spy who defecated on the UK to be honored by Queen.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 12:53

I see no big difference, really. Of course he defected for his own good (a prosperous life & possible honours as a bonus). That's a typical motivation for a traitor.

**PLATO** · October 21, 2007, 12:59

It is sad that he had to be a traitor to his country to be a hero of freedom. Still, he is a hero to the cause of freedom for the oppressed people of the former Soviet Union. Moscow should confer honours on him as well for helping bring about what democracy they do have.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 13:18

Originally posted by PLATO
It is sad that he had to be a traitor to his country to be a hero of freedom. Still, he is a hero to the cause of freedom for the oppressed people of the former Soviet Union. Moscow should confer honours on him as well for helping bring about what democracy they do have.

Bullsh!t.

Not only he broke his military oath, thus betrayed the abstract Motherland, but he uncovered Soviet agents - his brothers in arms, who were arrested thanks to his betryal. That makes him a complete mother****er without any morality nor conscience.

Oppressed people, freedom, democracy, pull that where the sun doesn't shine. The ****er betrayed his brothers in arms and deserves nothing, but a firing squad. For you USSR of 80's was all about oppression and lack of freedom and democracy. For me it's the place where I was born and spend 14 years of my life untill it collapsed in 1991. And now for me (a 30 years old male), USSR of my childhood is neither more opprssive or non-democratic than your holy empire of US of A.

**Imran Siddiqui** · October 21, 2007, 13:23

Because we all know of how open those elections were in the USSR

.

I think I'd celebrate a spy who reported on his "brothers in arms" in Al Queda.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 14:00

1) I think you know about USSR much less than I do, simply because you you've never lived there. I did, so aside you I possess an insider information.
2) I don't know such country as Al Queda. And any attempts to make USSR=Al Queda, I find hilarious and stupid, at best.

**PLATO** · October 21, 2007, 14:31

Yeah it collapsed because it was such a great place...yeah, yeah, yeah...

Did you hear that Iran's women are the most free women in the world?

I bet the Soviets had a lot in common with them!

The Russian people are a great people, but the Soviet government was a dog and held them back from their potential. The real traitors to the people were the 25 ****ers that he turned in. They were the ones who were actively trying to oppress you...yet you laud them. Wow.

I am certainly glad that this fellow did contribute to your ability to even be in this debate...without true Russian patriots like him, you wouldn't be here to express your Soviet indoctrinated opinions.

**PLATO** · October 21, 2007, 14:33

Originally posted by Serb
And any attempts to make USSR=Al Queda, I find hilarious and stupid, at best.

QFT

AQ has only murdered thousands...not millions. Good point.

/me bets this is where Serb tries to get the issue off of USSR vs AQ and bring US into it.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 15:01

Originally posted by PLATO
Yeah it collapsed because it was such a great place...yeah, yeah, yeah...

No. USSR wasn't a perfect place, it needed reforms, but not the kind of reforms that brought collapse of the country and poverty of its population.

Did you hear that Iran's women are the most free women in the world?

Nope. And I find this claim to be absurd.

I bet the Soviets had a lot in common with them!

Nope. The women of the USSR were really free.

The Russian people are a great people, but the Soviet government was a dog and held them back from their potential. The real traitors to the people were the 25 ****ers that he turned in. They were the ones who were actively trying to oppress you...yet you laud them. Wow.

Yeah - wow. You are not even a Russian do decide whom the Russians should consider a traitors. That guy is a ****ing traitor and he deserves a firing squad. Simple as that. Those 25 "****ers" were officers of my country who worked abroad to get info which would help to protect my country from your ****ing empire that wanted to exterminate ME and MY country. They are the real heroes for me, not the ****er who betrayed them.

I am certainly glad that this fellow did contribute to your ability to even be in this debate...without true Russian patriots like him, you wouldn't be here to express your Soviet indoctrinated opinions.

He is not a Russian patriot, he is a typical traitor (in his case a traitor of Russia). To define who is a Russian patriot you should ask RUSSIANS, but not substitute their opinion with your own delusions.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 15:05

Originally posted by PLATO

QFT

AQ has only murdered thousands...not millions. Good point.

* PLATO bets this is where Serb tries to get the issue off of USSR vs AQ and bring US into it.

Considering that you are an American, therefore a product of famous American education system that provides a fancy geography skills, it would be stupid for me to expect that you know that such country as Al Queda simply doesn't exist.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 15:09

And I dare to claim that your holy empire killed much more millions than my holy empire did.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 15:10

And it still kills (I mean your empire).

**Dinner** · October 21, 2007, 15:37

Originally posted by Serb
I see no big difference, really. Of course he defected for his own good (a prosperous life & possible honours as a bonus). That's a typical motivation for a traitor.

The differences in standards of living, wealth, and political ideas was fairly stark between the west and the USSR. Some people did defect because they wanted to live the richer life style the west afforded but others defected because they genuinely disliked the authoritarian nature of the USSR. In short some men really thought about it and wanted to be free instead of living in a communist dictatorship.

Never under estimate a man's desire to be free of oppression. It is one of history's great motivators.

**Serb** · October 21, 2007, 17:07

In short some men really thought about it and wanted to be free instead of living in a communist dictatorship.

And at the same time, some wanted to be free from the opression of capitalist exploiters (capitalist pigs

) and switched sides to work for the Soviets.
But, if they broke their military oath and betrayed THEIR country - I have no respect for them at personal level. I can appreciate their services for my country, but I'll never respect or trust them, because they are still a traitors, regardless of their motivation.

Never under estimate a man's desire to be free of oppression. It is one of history's great motivators.

Had he wanted to be free from non-existent oppression, he wouldn't go to the KGB at the first place. The guy made a career in KGB, he was a colonel. And when he became a KGB colonel he suddenly saw the light and switched sides? Yeah, right

**** this bullsh!t and

that traitor.

**Provost Harrison** · October 21, 2007, 17:11

Originally posted by Serb

He was an officer and wore the same uniform like the ones whom he betrayed.

the traitor!

Face it - you lost the war. Now move on!

Announcement

Former KGB spy who defected to UK to be honored by Queen.

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