Dangerous birds

[Aeson]

What you are suggesting is akin taking an animal, raising it in a protective environment, and then releasing it into the wild with no special training to help it adapt. Those animals will likely not survive. Humans are the same way, only more likely to be able to adapt.

Your scenario is about how a creature in their native habitat will outperform another in a foreign habitat. It has nothing to do with inherent superiority.

[Proteus_MST]

I agree with that.

One could say, humans are best adapted to human culture sphere while animals are best adapted to their habitats, with each having the chance to outperform the other in their specific habitat.

[Pekka]

Proteus, wrong again.

An animal doesn't have a chance to outperform a human in human environment. What is it going to do?

Human in animal environment, well, you can get extreme example of a naked human and a bear, which I assume is some kind of a perverse fetish of yours, and the bear would win it. Sure. But like Aeson pointed it out, it's been done in the past already, humans did outperform and rise up from that situation, bears didn't. These days we make fun of bears and use their skin as something we walk on because we're posh.

[Pekka]

Also, we have decided as a society that some of these animals are important or at least worthy enough to not be killed and that they have their own stuff and as long as they keep in their own habitats, we should let them be.

So that's a big statement right there. We COULD go and just wipe them out, change their environment into ours, we CHOOSE not to do that. The bears can't do the same back to us, in fact all they can do is gather with other bastard bears and cry about being killed, that's all they can do, they can't even hold hands!

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Pekka
Proteus, wrong again.

An animal doesn't have a chance to outperform a human in human environment. What is it going to do?

Human in animal environment, well, you can get extreme example of a naked human and a bear, which I assume is some kind of a perverse fetish of yours, and the bear would win it. Sure. But like Aeson pointed it out, it's been done in the past already, humans did outperform and rise up from that situation, bears didn't. These days we make fun of bears and use their skin as something we walk on because we're posh.

And that was exactly what I meant,
a human outperforms another (nonhuman) animal in his habitat (i.e. the cultural sphere of humans) whereas a nonhuman animal outperforms humans in its own habitat (wood, jungle, whatever, maybe even more extreme habitats like desert or the arctic permaice ) unless the human is allowed to bring tools from his own habitat with him.

They´re both adapted to their respective habitats.
As Aeson said, there is no inherent superiority, humans may be at an disadvantage if entering the habitats of nonhuman animals, animals howevcer might be at an disadvantage if entering the habitat of humans (unless they´re very adaptable and have a very good fertility, like rats and cockroaches

[TheStinger]

one swift knee in the happysacks and it'll drop like anyone else

[Pekka]

Proteus, but that's not what I meant. I meant that if humans have a certain habitat and animals have their own spesific ones, the advantage always goes with humans. Humans don't have to play by the rules of animal habitat. We can bring our own culture with us and destroy the habitat. Animals don't have the power to enforce their habitat in ours, we have that power over them.

The nature, on the other hand, has the power to mess us all up. Storms etc. SO, in that sense, humans are superior, we don't have to give handicap to animals, and if you're a betting man, you know the human wins in all cases where handicaps aren't given. Even that says how superior we are, it is humans who can give handicap. That implies we have the power. Basically we can decide, animals can't.

[Patroklos]

None of course, your human superiority must suffice.

Then that negates what makes a human superior, intelligence. To really judge, the contendors would need to meet naturally, so after I have built my stockade and weapons from scratch

Another question would be if you could be considered to be an average human. Posting on Apolyton might be a sign of being above average

Yeah, thats it!