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Our foreign policy is retarded, part MMMMCXXV5billion

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  • #31
    Originally posted by PLATO
    Leaflets should be dropped explaining this and offering alternatives and deadlines. Then spray the crap out of the non-compliers.

    These leaflets should be from the Afghan government and the eradication done in accordance with Afghan law.
    What good will this "notice" do for illiterate peasants?
    Unbelievable!

    Comment

    • #32
      We should just buy the entire crop at an attractive price.

      You know you can make other things out of poppies than heroin, right? Like Morphine and Poppy seed bagels. I'm sure we could find a use for the poppies.

      Eradication attempts just piss people off. Maybe if they were super effective at denying the Taliban their money, it might be a worthwhile option, but pissing people off while being ineffective is just not the way to win a counter-insurgency.
      "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
      -Joan Robinson

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      • #33
        I was thinking of the "just buy the crop" route too. I had forgotten about the idea of making morphine out of it, though

        pissing people off while being ineffective is just not the way to win a counter-insurgency.
        QFT!

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

        Comment

        • #34
          It won't piss them off if there is a viable alternative, its not like the are attached to the poppie plant themselves.

          Open up a Toyota plant
          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

          Comment

          • #35
            And if there was a "viable alternative" that was being presented properly to (as Darius put it) illiterate peasants in rural Afganistan, I doubt we'd be having this argument.

            Hmm. Maybe Toyota can engineer cars that run on poppies!

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment

            • #36
              What are they going to grow that is worth more than opium?
              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

              Comment

              • #37

                Have you been using Heroin today? How many times do I have to say "I don't think the best way to do that is spraying."?


                Aren't you self-centered? I was making a general point addressing the two other "solutions" to the opium problem, one of which Bush is pressuring to be implemented. As for the other one, cutting down crop so far has been so ineffectual that Afghanistan just put out its largest opium harvest in history. A complete and utter failure. In this situation, as with most others, honey's a ****load more effective than guns.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

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                • #38
                  They just said no to spraying.


                  They said no initially, but parts of the Karzai Admin have since been persuaded according to the article. We're putting pressure on Karzai to fall in line (so much, apparantly, that Gordon Brown had to ask Bush to lay off the pressure).
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Ramo
                    They just said no to spraying.


                    They said no initially, but parts of the Karzai Admin have since been persuaded according to the article. We're putting pressure on Karzai to fall in line (so much, apparantly, that Gordon Brown had to ask Bush to lay off the pressure).
                    But Karzai knows the jig is up if he agrees to spraying and further pisses off the part of the population that is currently against him (the same people growing the poppies). He won't agree.
                    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if we tied the amount of aid to Bush's opinion wrt being appropriately vigorous in the eradication of opium. There's a reason why parts of Karzai's gov't fell in line, and I doubt it had anything to do with the soundness of the policy.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Why can't we spend the aid money on buying the crop and using it for good things or just destroying it?

                        How much would it cost to buy Afganistan's entire poppy crop? We could probably get several other governments to chip in... it's not like the US is the only country with a heroin problem.

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Well Afghan heroin goes to Europe not the US, IIRC. Why are we paying to destroy Europe's drug supply?
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Darius871


                            What good will this "notice" do for illiterate peasants?
                            You raise a very good point. I guess literacy is something I took for granted (Bad PLATO...BAD). There are ways to get the word around however and they should be utilized.
                            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Wezil


                              And if the Afghan government says "no" (as they appear to be doing)?
                              This is their right. It is ours to say that this is a matter of great concern to us and to bring pressures to bear. I would bet that they would see it our way in the end.
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Arrian
                                Why can't we spend the aid money on buying the crop and using it for good things or just destroying it?

                                How much would it cost to buy Afganistan's entire poppy crop? We could probably get several other governments to chip in... it's not like the US is the only country with a heroin problem.

                                -Arrian
                                Because then you encourage production. The idea is to discourage production.
                                "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                                Comment

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