National Coming Out Day

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs

Oh, and I should note that the opposite of your argument here is true, that throwing thousands of gay people (men and women) OUT of the military has caused problems. The most glaring of which are finding adequate numbers of capable translators when we're in dire need of them in both Iraq, Afghanistan, and intelligence gathering and analysis.

I agree Gays should not be tossed out of the military but I also believe you are over playing the case a bit on how many linguists and other critical MOSes are getting tossed out for being gay.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=6&u=/ap/20050114/ap_on_re_us/gays_military_linguists

They've basically tossed out 26 linguists over a six year period for the dates covered by that study. That's just over 4 per year getting kicked out and several thousand a year go through DLI in Monterrey not even counting people who are ESL and already speak another language.

In short it should stop but clearly not many people in key fields are getting shown the door. It is an unjust situation but as the struggle for equal rights goes it isn't the biggest. Maybe prioritizing the right to have committed relationships recognized by the state (with all associated benefits) should be higher on the priority list then this? Just a bit of perspective.

[-Jrabbit]

edit: Hell, originally it was said women shouldn't be allowed to work outside of the home because it would distract male workers and lead to sexual sin. The truth is people can have sex anywhere and society is more creative and productive because we have so many more satisfied workers.

Fixed.

[Patroklos]

Heh, D's poll

[flipside]

Idly wonders why where he puts his weiner is a big deal.

[Straybow]

-Jrabbit

[Darius871]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
bla, bla, bla

Even if I were to take the poll on its face, the two questions have two completely different meanings. One can be fine with serving alongside an open homosexual, and at the same time believe that allowing them generally is a bad idea, without being logically inconsistent. It's a matter of having one personal view while nonetheless acknowledging that the less enlightened views of others would certainly lead to bad consequences and at least potentially lead to deadly consequences.

For instance, I could say I have no problem with my roommates snorting some coke recreationally because it's none of my damn business, but that doesn't necessarily mean (or even imply) that I think cocaine should be legalized generally. One does not follow from the other.

[Disclaimer: I am not comparing homosexuality to drug abuse, so don't pull that predictable response. The point is that one can have no problem with a particular act and yet believe for utilitarian public policy reasons that said act should not be pervasive.]

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Oerdin

edit: Hell, originally it was said women shouldn't be allowed to work outside of the home because it would distract male workers and lead to sexual sin. The truth is people can control themselves and society is more creative and productive because we have so many more skilled workers.

Good point about people's capability for self-control.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
.
Black Americans posed no problem. They were problematic to whites for racist reasons....

Can anyone help WiggedOut spot the logical contradiction here ?


Dear Wighat, when American troops were stationed in dear old Blighty during WWII there were several instances of violence connected with white racist troops dislike of the African American troops' popularity with white British women.


I fail to see how violent outbursts between groups of soldiers serving in the same army is not a 'problem'.


If your hypothetical complaining straight soldiers are really so worried about some gay soldier looking at their tackle in the showers that they can't perform in the field of battle, then perhaps they should be back at home drooling over Britney Spears' videos.

Tuesday, San Antonio

On the first day of the war, Eric Alva, 36, sat in his Humvee just outside Basra "waiting for word" to invade. "We'd been there for about two and a half hours," he says. During that time he got out of his truck a few times. Once to get supplies for another vehicle; another time to heat up his MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) of spaghetti and meatballs. The third time he went to the passenger side to get something, he can't remember what. In the end, it wouldn't matter. He never made it. On his way, he stepped on a landmine that he must have twice walked over and was blown 5-10ft away. "There was black smoke everywhere," he recalls. "My hearing was gone. I could see that my arm was blown open. I tried to sit up, but my lower half couldn't move."

His fellow soldiers rushed to him, ripping off his clothes so they could administer emergency aid. Many things ran through Alva's mind at that moment. He thought he was going to die. He had broken his promise to his mother that he wouldn't get hurt. And why weren't they removing his right boot?

Alva's right leg had been blown off. The war was just three hours old. "I have the dubious honour of being the first American to be injured in the war," he says. While in hospital in Washington DC, he received a visit from President Bush and former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld. When he came out of rehab in San Antonio, he was sporting a prosthetic leg emblazoned with the Stars and Stripes. His arm was a mass of scars and he was missing his right index finger.

Alva was invited on Oprah and CNN. In San Antonio he became a local celebrity. When he went to restaurants people would sometimes pay for his meal. His closest friend, Darrell, told him he should capitalise on his renown: "If you ever plan to do anything about this, you should do it quickly, because people won't remember you 10 to 15 years from now."

So Alva did. He told the world that he was gay, that Darrell was his partner and that he had earned the right to challenge the military's policy of "don't ask, don't tell".

He contacted the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay rights advocacy group. Next, he came out on Good Morning America. Within minutes he was the centre of a different kind of attention. He was the grand marshall in San Francisco's Gay Pride parade and was on the cover of the Human Rights Campaign's magazine. How did those who praised him for his service respond to his sexuality? "Most people were really good about it. People who have a problem with it just don't mention it. And that's fine."

And the incongruity between Alva's sacrifice abroad and experiences at home soon became too much for him. "In 2005, Texas voted to change its constitution to ban gay marriage. I thought, 'That means you, Eric. This is your state. You can't just sit here any more while they strip your rights away.' I fought for full equality, so that people could be treated with dignity and respect abroad. Why should I come back and be treated like a second-class citizen?

"I was not the first gay American to serve my country and I won't be the last. A number have died. But the government's not going to recognise the partners of a gay soldier and say, 'I'm sorry to inform you...' " The veterans' benefits he gets, including preferential loans, can't be passed on to Darrell. "If anything happens to me, Darrell couldn't stay in this house. That's wrong."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2183277,00.html

Good enough to be blown up but not good enough to be treated the way a straight serviceman would be, it seems....

[Dis]

I think today is the day. time to make an announcement.

they other day I watched a television program on lifetime cable channel. It's tough admitting this. I know I will recieve scorn from society and my family, but the weight lifted off my chest compensates for it. I have a long hard road ahead, but I will bravely move ahead. Because I intend on watching lifetime channel more in the future. Society will not stop me now.

[DRoseDARs]

You're finally getting a job?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by molly bloom


If your hypothetical complaining straight soldiers are really so worried about some gay soldier looking at their tackle in the showers that they can't perform in the field of battle, then perhaps they should be back at home drooling over Britney Spears' videos.

Indeed. Unless people like Wiglaf believe that emotionally unstable straight men can serve better than emotionally stable gay men?

[Darius871]

Hell, if some dude was checking out my stuff in the shower I guess I'd be flattered.

[Wezil]

Wouldn't that depend somewhat on the duration of the "check"?

[Darius871]

He can ogle, drool, and fap for twenty minutes straight for all I care. So long as I'm not being touched without permission, what difference does it make?

[Wezil]

I don't know about you but I don't think I'd be flattered by a quick glimpse. Particularly if followed by a look of boredom or even a yawn.....