The reason I don't like radical feminists

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
And Kid, who are you to judge other people's human relationships?

I'm an interested person. I take it you are not.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Billy Joel
Some things were perfectly clear, seen with the vision of youth
No doubts and nothing to fear, I claimed the corner on truth
These days it's harder to say I know what I'm fighting for
My faith is falling away
I'm not that sure anymore

Shades of grey wherever I go
The more I find out the less that I know
Black and white is how it should be
But shades of grey are the colors I see

Once there were trenches and walls and one point of every view
Fight 'til the other man falls - kill him before he kills you
These days the edges are blurred, I'm old and tired of war
I hear the other man's words
I'm not that sure anymore

Shades of grey are all that I find
When I look to the enemy line
Black and white was so easy for me
But shades of grey are the colors I see

Now with the wisdom of years, I try to reason things out
And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts
Save us all from arrogant men, and all the causes they're for
I won't be righteous again
I'm not that sure anymore

Shades of grey are all that I find
When I look to the enemy line
Ain't no rainbows shining on me
Shades of grey are the colors I see

Shades of grey wherever I go
The more I find out the less that I know
Ain't no rainbows shining on me
Shades of grey are the colors I see

[Patroklos]

I'm an interested person. I take it you are not.

If your going to make me be rude about it, given the complete disaster your married/family life turned out to be (by your own admission, often) what makes you think you can sit here and judge how others relationships work?

No wonder you have a hard time distinguishing what is condescending and what is not.

I don't think it is projecting alone, it is jealousy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
If your going to make me be rude about it, given the complete disaster your married/family life turned out to be (by your own admission, often) what makes you think you can sit here and judge how others relationships work?

Oh, that's good, I made you get rude. See the subtlety there. Very interesting.

No wonder you have a hard time distinguishing what is condescending and what is not.

Again. Just because you get offended by something does not mean that the speaker is condescending. If you misunderstand what is said, and you purposefully do, that it's not condescending. That really says more about you than the speaker.

I don't think it is projecting alone, it is jealousy.

Why the hell would I be jealous of people who don't seem to understand things?

[Shrapnel12]

Originally posted by Arrian

My father made a point of deferring to my mother on lots of things. He's not perfect, but the man did a damned good job of teaching me, both in words and in deeds, to respect women and see them as equals (as did my mother, obviously).

It's sad, really, that you cannot conceive of a upbringing like that.

-Arrian

Actually that's my problem I think. My father taught me to respect women a bit too much. I was taught women could do no wrong and deserved to be treated special. In later life I found out they are human just like the rest of us. My expectations had been crushed and I'm probably a little bitter about it.

[Kidlicious]

I believe you shrapnel12.

Certain people I don't trust their judgement of things. No offense Arrian, but when you say something I just second guess it.

[Patroklos]

Why the hell would I be jealous of people who don't seem to understand things?

Its jealousy in that aparenty your parents and your marriage functioned as you imagine everyone elses does. Instead of accepting that yours is a unique or at least not typical for Apolyton experiance, you would rather tell us what we actually know and experianced.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by BeBro
This is madness.

Yes, it is.

Though oddly entertaining.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12


Actually that's my problem I think. My father taught me to respect women a bit too much. I was taught women could do no wrong and deserved to be treated special. In later life I found out they are human just like the rest of us. My expectations had been crushed and I'm probably a little bitter about it.

Ah, there is a danger in that, certainly.

Respect as equal =! putting on a pedastel.

-Arrian

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Arrian


Yes, it is.

Though oddly entertaining.

-Arrian

I admire your patience though

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Its jealousy in that aparenty your parents and your marriage functioned as you imagine everyone elses does. Instead of accepting that yours is a unique or at least not typical for Apolyton experiance, you would rather tell us what we actually know and experianced.

A bit of psychoanalysis on your part, eh?

I don't pretend that everyones family is like mine. I'm not that frigging delusional. I do doubt however that people had the perfect "non-leave it to beaver" family though when they are arguing against feminism. It's too easy to say, "I have a perfectly democratic family" therefore you are wrong.

[Arrian]

Point of clarification: I am not arguing against Feminism, nor have I ever done so that I can recall on Apolyton.

I have stated that I favor the continued movement to equality - which of course means that I agree that we as a society aren't there yet.

We got to discussing a particular radical feminist's statements (select quotes that you provided). If I disagree with her, that doesn't mean I'm anti-feminism.

I objected to sweeping statements concerning male behavior. I was pointing out (though you've rejected it) that there are men who are raised in, as you put it, a "non-leave it to Beaver" style.

That was it. This is not an earth-shattering pronouncement.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

It's too easy to say, "The families of the 4.9999 billion people I don't know and have never observed are sexist because it makes my political philosophy/childhood and marriage experience make sense," therefore you are wrong.

FIXED.

[Lorizael]

Kid, there is a middle ground between the "leave it to beaver" family and the "perfectly democratic" family. Shades of grey. This is what you don't understand.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Kid, there is a middle ground between the "leave it to beaver" family and the "perfectly democratic" family. Shades of grey. This is what you don't understand.

I don't understand you point. That's all that I'm saying is that there is no such thing as a perfectly non-sexist male or the perfect democratic family.