The reason I don't like radical feminists

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Okay, a little further now:

What is your view on sexuality? If a man is straight as an arrow and is attempting to woo a female, is it sexist for him to treat that female better than he would treat his male friends?

Now, beyond that:

If a woman wants a man to treat her better than that man would treat his male friends, is she sexist as well?

Don't call me absurd. Don't roll your eyes at me. Don't insult me. I'm still not making value judgments; I just want you to answer the questions.

There's a few things you need to define. What is "woo a female" and "treat better?"

Generally, I think it's impossible to not be sexist in such a situation, but it's the specific behaviour that is sexist, not just "treating better" If you like someone more, just treating them better is not sexist.

And, yes, a women can be sexist for expecting a man to treat her differently.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos


As long as I am treating men and woman equally its not sexism right, like you said.

Of course if it is easier to divine I some how like domestic violence instaed of addressing the gaping holes in your definition please go ahead.

No. Domestic violence is not cool, and it's sexist. I'm not going to explain why it is. Stop being obtuse.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
There's a few things you need to define. What is "woo a female" and "treat better?"

These are probably hard to define without getting into messy semantics. Let's say a man flirts with women but does not flirt with men. He will make jokes, be more charming, smile more, engage in sexual innuendo - that sort of thing.

I'm guessing that would also fall under the category of sexist, which leads us to...

Generally, I think it's impossible to not be sexist in such a situation...

Here we go, then. Now, if such sexism is impossible to avoid, should it still be condemned? If such sexism should be condemned and is still harmful, what is the solution? Should men flirt with other men as well?

And, yes, a women can be sexist for expecting a man to treat her differently.

Consistency.

[Patroklos]

Stop being obtuse.

Your going to say that after the last dozen pages? Priceless

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
These are probably hard to define without getting into messy semantics. Let's say a man flirts with women but does not flirt with men. He will make jokes, be more charming, smile more, engage in sexual innuendo - that sort of thing.

Yes, that's sexist. I think the degree to which it is depends on the relationship. If the two know each other well and the women is receptive it's not a bad thing. If the guy is a playa and makes sexual innuendos to every chick he sees that's very sexist.

The thing that I struggle with is thinking of how every women I see should see my penis and think that it's amazing. How do I just think of them as someone I want to get to know and yet be fall in love (be attracted to)?

Here we go, then. Now, if such sexism is impossible to avoid, should it still be condemned? If such sexism should be condemned and is still harmful, what is the solution? Should men flirt with other men as well?

Obviously men should not flirt with other men unless they are joking or gay. If they are gay the same rules apply as for heterosexual relations.

Men and women should know they are sexist and act accordingly. For example, they should check their opinions, words, and actions.

[Shrapnel12]

Aaaaaa....., having a relationship with someone and treating them differently than someone of the same sex, obviously this excludes certain things like intercourse.

If this is your definition, then the real question is who isn't sexist man or woman? How can you not treat them different? We are different and not just socially but mentally and physically. Different does not mean inferior. We treat everyone different for a variety of reasons, most are not even because of some -ism. I think the real thing that qualifies something as sexist or racist is to ask, "Is it just or fair?"

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Yes, that's sexist. I think the degree to which it is depends on the relationship. If the two know each other well and the women is receptive it's not a bad thing. If the guy is a playa and makes sexual innuendos to every chick he sees that's very sexist.

But how is a woman who is "receptive" to flirtation different from a woman who "wants" that same flirtation. If the latter is sexist, why not the former? Being receptive, as far as I can tell, means that you're allowing sexism to continue and are okay with it.

Men and women should know they are sexist and act accordingly. For example, they should check their opinions, words, and actions.

So we have your definition of sexism as treating someone you're in a relationship with differently based on that someone's sex. And we have here the idea that everyone is sexist and needs to essentially just not act in a way that is overtly sexist.

Does this mean that it's okay to think sexist thoughts so long as you don't act them out? Does this mean that you're not sexist if you only think things and don't express them? Is sexism the act, the thoughts, the state of mind?

Clarify.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
If this is your definition, then the real question is who isn't sexist man or woman? How can you not treat them different? We are different and not just socially but mentally and physically. Different does not mean inferior. We treat everyone different for a variety of reasons, most are not even because of some -ism. I think the real thing that qualifies something as sexist or racist is to ask, "Is it just or fair?"

Some people's brains work so that different means inferior. I think kids naturally try to attach value to things, even people. When my son was 4 he told me that he didn't like one of my friends. I asked him why, and he said "because he's black." I don't know where he could have got that idea.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
But how is a woman who is "receptive" to flirtation different from a woman who "wants" that same flirtation. If the latter is sexist, why not the former?

Like I said, if you get to know a person instead of just trying to have sex them that's different. That's the best I can explain my opinion on the matter. It's about respect. Do you think of the person as an object or a person.

Being receptive, as far as I can tell, means that you're allowing sexism to continue and are okay with it.

Just because you are ok with it, doesn't make it not sexist.

So we have your definition of sexism as treating someone you're in a relationship with differently based on that someone's sex. And we have here the idea that everyone is sexist and needs to essentially just not act in a way that is overtly sexist.

Does this mean that it's okay to think sexist thoughts so long as you don't act them out? Does this mean that you're not sexist if you only think things and don't express them? Is sexism the act, the thoughts, the state of mind?

Clarify.

Like I said, people should check their opinions. Are their opinions based on sexist ideas? People should self-reflect on what they are thinking and analyse their own thoughts.

[Chemical Ollie]

I can give you an example of man hating feminists. There is an organisation taking care of battered women and giving them somewhere to run and hide.

The safe-house they have in a neighbur town of mine refused to take care of a woman who had been severely beaten by her adult daughter (whom with she shared apartment). She had been to emergency hospital to fix her injuries and now needed some place to sleep. She didn't dare to go home to her daughter, in fear of being beaten again. But the ladies in the safe house refused to let her in, because she had not been beaten by a man.

I discussed the event with some feminists on a Swedish forum and they saw nothing wrong there. "If the safe houses tried to solve mother-daughter conflicts, they wouldn't have time for anything else", they said. So they thought it was fully natural and acceptable for a woman to beat her own mother to a bloody gore.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I can give you an example of man hating feminists. There is an organisation taking care of battered women and giving them somewhere to run and hide.

The safe-house they have in a neighbur town of mine refused to take care of a woman who had been severely beaten by her adult daughter (whom with she shared apartment). She had been to emergency hospital to fix her injuries and now needed some place to sleep. She didn't dare to go home to her daughter, in fear of being beaten again. But the ladies in the safe house refused to let her in, because she had not been beaten by a man.

I discussed the event with some feminists on a Swedish forum and they saw nothing wrong there. "If the safe houses tried to solve mother-daughter conflicts, they wouldn't have time for anything else", they said. So they thought it was fully natural and acceptable for a woman to beat her own mother to a bloody gore.

I think that might be bigotry. However, the facilities might not be set up to help victims of women on women violence. That type might be too rare. Hopefully there was another shelter she could get into.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Like I said, if you get to know a person instead of just trying to have sex them that's different. That's the best I can explain my opinion on the matter. It's about respect. Do you think of the person as an object or a person.

So if you're married and everything you're doing is agreed upon and you think your wife is a person, it's not sexist?

Just because you are ok with it, doesn't make it not sexist.

I know. So, then, being receptive to flirtation is still sexist?

Like I said, people should check their opinions. Are their opinions based on sexist ideas? People should self-reflect on what they are thinking and analyse their own thoughts.

Answer my question. Are you still sexist if you only think sexist thoughts?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lorizael
So if you're married and everything you're doing is agreed upon and you think your wife is a person, it's not sexist?

Only if you treat here as an equal, and she acts as an equal.

I know. So, then, being receptive to flirtation is still sexist?

It's hard to say. A wink is probably not sexist unless done a certain way. It depends on how it's done. I don't know if you are going to the sex thing, but I'll tell you that I don't think sex is sexist necessarily.

Answer my question. Are you still sexist if you only think sexist thoughts?

I'll say yes just to see where you are going, but I'm not sure.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Only if you treat here as an equal, and she acts as an equal.

So this situation can exist? Would this be a situation in which sexism did not exist?

I'll say yes just to see where you are going, but I'm not sure.

If yes, then is it possible to not even have sexist thoughts?

[Kidlicious]

Enough of your war of attrition. You are asking me questions that I've already answered.

Point please.