Canadian dollar almost at parity with US, will pass it soon

[Kontiki]

Clearly we just have a different definition of a labour shortage, then.

I think what you're overlooking is that different people have different expectations/needs/wants/whatever in terms of pay, and different employers have different expectations/needs/wants/whatever in terms of what they're willing to pay, all of which depends on a given situation. So at the bottom end of the spectrum, you have employers willing to pay minimum wage (the least they can legally pay someone) and a certain number of people who are willing to accept that wage. What you're seeing now is employers still hoping to get people at that lowest possible rate because they're not desperate to bring someone on board. If they can get someone at $8.00/hr (or whatever minimum wage is these days - frankly, I have no idea) then great. If not, then so be it. If they raised the wage to $10/hr, more people would likely be intersted and the position would be filled. But the employer doesn't need anyone that badly that they'll pay $10/hour, so they'll just sit and wait until someone will accept the lowest legal wage.

Meanwhile, further up the spectrum, you've got a guy who just got laid off from his job at the Ford plant where he was making $75,000 a year. This guy isn't rushing out to take that minimum wage job at Tim Hortons, but at the same time, he doesn't have much opportunity to grab another $75k factory job.

The difference between an area with a labour shortage and one without is that this guy probably could find another $75K factory job and the bottom end employer would be willing to pay more. Again, use Alberta as an example. Some rig worker making six figures could probably quit his job and find another paying the same amount without too much difficulty because employers can't find enough people to throw money at. Similarly, McDonalds isn't waiting around for someone to take the lowest legal wage, they're upping their offering and still not getting people. That's a labour shortage.

[Kuciwalker]

Clearly we just have a different definition of a labour shortage, then.

Yes, and I'm pretty sure Flubber's is the one that makes sense - a shortage of labor. Jobs unfilled is perfectly good evidence of that.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Flubber

I now know that Ontario has a shortage of doctors and retail/fast food workers. How are you folks doing for Teachers, nurses, lab techs bus drivers?

I don't really know. My hand is not on the pulse of these things. I do see the low wage signs everywhere so it is hard not to know that. I can also say the trucking industry is very short on drivers. This has become an entry level position for many newcomers to Canada (particularly Indian, Pakistani and middle eastern drivers).

Here in Alberta we seem to have shortages of pretty much anything from cab drivers up to geo-scientists-- Given the mobility of labour within Canada there will be a continuation of relocations I guess (although housing pricesa dn availability will probably be the big constraint on that

It is a nice problem to have all things considered.

[Wezil]

Kontiki - I understand what you are saying. If I/you/we had better numbers on what the McJobs are offering for pay that issue might become clearer. I have to imagine the pay offered is creeping up as businesses try to compete for the low end worker. How much and how fast I have no idea. Also keep in mind minimum wage in Ontario is higher than many other provinces (including Alberta - although I suspect you can't hire anyone in AB at their current minimum wage...).

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Clearly we just have a different definition of a labour shortage, then.

Yes, and I'm pretty sure Flubber's is the one that makes sense - a shortage of labor. Jobs unfilled is perfectly good evidence of that.

Ya I don't quite understand Kontiki's take. I accept that there might be lots of labour availability for fast food jobs if it paid 100K per year and not enough to fill the jobs when they pay 18K. But that is true of pretty much every job.

Toronto could have a shortage of heart surgeons despite a pay of 500K. Make it 2.5 million and you would probably have enough. ( just a "for instance")

IN Calgary a nurse can make say 70K but some still leave due to housing costs (its better to make 55K elsewhere or whatever). If you jacked the pay to 150K people would flock in.

Thats why I am not sure why you say there is not a shortage of labour in retail/fast food. There are unfilled jobs. The fact that higher pay might fill them are true for pretty much any job. Pay enough and they will fill the job- unless this only means that others will pay more since there truly is not a big enough labour force to fill all the jobs

Oh and my sister advises that a new regular family restaurant in St. John's is advertising $11/hour for wait staff plus tips-- They are basically trying to compete with the call centres wages-- and hell this is Newfoundland!!

[Flubber]

The McJobs wage seems to have stabilized as starting in the $10-12 range here in Calgary (thats what the signs say anyway)-- It seems that they won't go higher than that and I have witnessed many fast food places closing early-- " Closed due to lack of staff" is what the signs say.

I am guessing that wages above that level would simply not be profitable since the big chains do maintain uniform pricing across the country from what I have seen.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Flubber
...I have witnessed many fast food places closing early-- " Closed due to lack of staff" is what the signs say.

We haven't reached that point yet but staff shortages are apparent. Or it could just be my perception as I wait entirely too long at Timmies.

I am guessing that wages above that level would simply not be profitable since the big chains do maintain uniform pricing across the country from what I have seen.

They can only go so high. They have to close rather than pay more.

btw, I checked Minimum wages. I was wrong Ontario and Alberta are both at $8/hr. What is actually being offered here I don't know.

http://www.rhdsc.gc.ca/en/hip/cslp/Policies/36_po_Table5ProvincialMinimumWage.shtml

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Flubber


Ya I don't quite understand Kontiki's take. I accept that there might be lots of labour availability for fast food jobs if it paid 100K per year and not enough to fill the jobs when they pay 18K. But that is true of pretty much every job.

It might be, but the first step would be to, you know, maybe offer 19 or 20k a year. If employers aren't willing to budge at all, I'm not sure how you can say they're facing a shortage. If I want to pay some kid $2 to mow my lawn but they'll only do it for $3, it doesn't constitute a labour crisis.

Toronto could have a shortage of heart surgeons despite a pay of 500K. Make it 2.5 million and you would probably have enough. ( just a "for instance")

IN Calgary a nurse can make say 70K but some still leave due to housing costs (its better to make 55K elsewhere or whatever). If you jacked the pay to 150K people would flock in.

Funny you should bring up those two examples. We are short doctors (well, family doctors) and nurses in Ontario, but that's primarily a structural rather than a market issue. For doctors, there's tons of bureaucratic red tape, licensing hurdles and lack of training facilities that make becoming a doctor in Ontario very difficult. Offering twice the salary isn't going to make these issues go away (and, of course, it's the government that ultimately pays the salaries anyway). We desperately need more nurses, but a huge chunk of our nursing grads can't get full time work because hospitals and other health care facilities don't have the budgets to hire them. In other words, the salaries generally aren't the issue.

Thats why I am not sure why you say there is not a shortage of labour in retail/fast food. There are unfilled jobs. The fact that higher pay might fill them are true for pretty much any job. Pay enough and they will fill the job- unless this only means that others will pay more since there truly is not a big enough labour force to fill all the jobs

Well, that's not precisely what I said. I said I don't think we have a labour shortage in general. However, I also maintain that if employers are feeling like they're facing a labour shortage, they might actually try to do something to make their jobs more attractive. You don't need to triple the wages, but you might want to do something other than have the attitude of "oh well, if no one wants to work for the lowest possible wage, we won't bother hiring anyone".

[Wezil]

If you don't mind Kontiki... Where in Ontario are you?

[Kontiki]

Toronto

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Toronto

Oh dear. I was hoping to be able to say something nice.

[Kontiki]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm originally from out west. Born in Saskatoon, grew up in Vancouver. Definitely not a native Torontonian.

[Wezil]

That's good. As with Asher, there is still hope.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The point you overlook is that if they did that with their pay slip, they could just as likely focus on the sum of their bill.

You also ignore the point that it doesn't make a difference if they do notice that they paid 21 cents in GST on a purchase. And it wouldn't make a difference to most Canadians if the GST was raised or lowered by 1 per cent.

If the GST was included in the price, the only thing that would change is that life would be more convenient for most Canadians.

Whither or not you think people would notice an extra percent here and there isn't the point. The amount of tax should be clearly spelled out so that everyone can see and not hidden in a price. That way people can clearly see exactly how much tax they are paying and maybe even get pissed off about it.

In the end the people have a right to see what they're paying and politicians shouldn't try to hide taxes as you are suggesting.

[Flubber]

well it seems we will get a GST cut, an increase in personal exemption AND a small rate cut in the first tier.

The Liberals again are stuck not supporting it but not willing to vote against it