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  • quote:
    Originally posted by Berzerker
    umm...the reason we dont see libertarian societies everywhere is because most people dont really believe in freedom... That much is painfully obvious...

    Originally posted by Kidicious


    That's because it doesn't work. I thought I said that part.

    That's the stupidest thing I've seen today, and I saw quite a bit. Congrats.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

    Comment


    • I'd call it an expression of Enlightenment liberalism.
      Back then libertarians were called liberals - classical liberals. The difference between them and liberalism today is that the former wanted freedom, the latter want gov't programs to "re-distribute" other people's wealth. Liberals dont support the Constitution, thats why they want judges who will "interpret" a multitude of unenumerated powers into the Constitution. You may like these modern statist programs but dont pretend they're supported by the Constitution.

      No. They believe in freedom, just not in the kind of freedom that would destroy all social institutions and leave us in a Hobbesian state of nature.
      Freedom of association IS the most important social institution. The "social institutions" you like are all about taking property from people and handing it out based on what you think is fair. The benevolent dictatorship is your social institution...

      Libertarians have to explain how their state would deal with collective action problems and market failures without introducing the kind of coercive state they claim to despise. Pretending these things don't exist is not a viable option.
      Oh nonsense, I dont see liberals telling us their ideology is screwed up when the market "fails" and they're in charge of the economy. When government screws up, it aint an indictment of liberalism, we just need better government blah blah blah. The US survived for decades without the need of your liberalism, and it survived thru much tougher times.

      That's why the communist societies worked. It's better to have a really bad coercive state than no coercive state at all.
      "Communist" societies is a myth, communism is a modern invention. People in small communities have always based their system on freedom of association. If you didn't want to join the village, you went on your way. Commies build walls to keep people in...

      That's because when you attempt to strip away culture, religion, and ideology you get chaos, gangs and organized crime, and then a dictatorship to "restore order." Kinda like what happens when the meta-stable communist version of libertarianism finally collapses.
      Yeah, tell Muslim women in the Middle East about why their culture should trump their freedom. And it aint about stripping away anything, libertarianism supports culture, religion, etc., but it opposes making us practice someone else's religion. If you dont like a book, dont read it...

      Comment


      • And if you don't want anyone to laugh at your ass, don't show it.
        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

        Comment


        • I'm still trying to figure out how a little dweeb like him got such a hot wife

          There must be gold in them thar pants he's got!
          Welcome to earth, my name is Tia and I'll be your tour guide for this trip.
          Succulent and Bejeweled Mother Goddess, who is always moisturised yet never greasy, always patient yet never suffers fools~Starchild
          Dragons? Yup- big flying lizards with an attitude. ~ Laz
          You are forgiven because you are FABULOUS ~ Imran

          Comment


          • Thank you for taking the conversation back to the hot wife and away from discussion of libertarian crap. My guess is that she's ideologically very similar to him--which makes her somewhat less hot to me, TBH.
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Straybow
              Originally posted by Berzerker
              No Kid, the people who dont believe in freedom came to that conclusion based on culture, religion, ideology, racism, or some other bugaboo. People aren't taught to be free... Aside from slavery, which the South did not need to survive, the USA was more libertarian than liberal or conservative for most of its early history...and we obviously survived.

              That's because when you attempt to strip away culture, religion, and ideology you get chaos, gangs and organized crime, and then a dictatorship to "restore order." Kinda like what happens when the meta-stable communist version of libertarianism finally collapses.
              Studies have shown that increases in crime are related to economic failures. Is there some reason that you think it's because people are less religious?
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

              Comment


              • Poverty causes crime = Big Lie of the left

                Your nation must have been a crime ridden cesspool during the Great Depression. Was it?
                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Well, actually...

                  Comment


                  • People don't lose their moral code b/c they are poor. How insulting.
                    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • It is easier to have a moral code to live by when you are getting enough to eat .
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • The Great Depression allowed HITLER to come to power!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                          It is easier to have a moral code to live by when you are getting enough to eat .
                          I guess it bears repeating: People don't lose their moral code b/c they are poor.
                          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Wezil
                            I guess it bears repeating: People don't lose their moral code b/c they are poor.
                            And if you don't think people are more inclined to steal food to feed their families or engage in other criminal endevors to take care of their families, then you are very naive.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • Show me the numbers. The Great Depression should clearly be the period of highest crime in the US. Was it?
                              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Wezil
                                Show me the numbers. The Great Depression should clearly be the period of highest crime in the US. Was it?
                                Only if you think poverty is the only impetus for crime, which I'm not sure anyone actually believes.
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                                Comment

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