Ron Paul seems to be cool!

[SlowwHand]

quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
umm...the reason we dont see libertarian societies everywhere is because most people dont really believe in freedom... That much is painfully obvious...

Originally posted by Kidicious


That's because it doesn't work. I thought I said that part.

That's the stupidest thing I've seen today, and I saw quite a bit. Congrats.

[Berzerker]

I'd call it an expression of Enlightenment liberalism.

Back then libertarians were called liberals - classical liberals. The difference between them and liberalism today is that the former wanted freedom, the latter want gov't programs to "re-distribute" other people's wealth. Liberals dont support the Constitution, thats why they want judges who will "interpret" a multitude of unenumerated powers into the Constitution. You may like these modern statist programs but dont pretend they're supported by the Constitution.

No. They believe in freedom, just not in the kind of freedom that would destroy all social institutions and leave us in a Hobbesian state of nature.

Freedom of association IS the most important social institution. The "social institutions" you like are all about taking property from people and handing it out based on what you think is fair. The benevolent dictatorship is your social institution...

Libertarians have to explain how their state would deal with collective action problems and market failures without introducing the kind of coercive state they claim to despise. Pretending these things don't exist is not a viable option.

Oh nonsense, I dont see liberals telling us their ideology is screwed up when the market "fails" and they're in charge of the economy. When government screws up, it aint an indictment of liberalism, we just need better government blah blah blah. The US survived for decades without the need of your liberalism, and it survived thru much tougher times.

That's why the communist societies worked. It's better to have a really bad coercive state than no coercive state at all.

"Communist" societies is a myth, communism is a modern invention. People in small communities have always based their system on freedom of association. If you didn't want to join the village, you went on your way. Commies build walls to keep people in...

That's because when you attempt to strip away culture, religion, and ideology you get chaos, gangs and organized crime, and then a dictatorship to "restore order." Kinda like what happens when the meta-stable communist version of libertarianism finally collapses.

Yeah, tell Muslim women in the Middle East about why their culture should trump their freedom. And it aint about stripping away anything, libertarianism supports culture, religion, etc., but it opposes making us practice someone else's religion. If you dont like a book, dont read it...

[SlowwHand]

And if you don't want anyone to laugh at your ass, don't show it.

[Tiamat]

I'm still trying to figure out how a little dweeb like him got such a hot wife

There must be gold in them thar pants he's got!

[Elok]

Thank you for taking the conversation back to the hot wife and away from discussion of libertarian crap. My guess is that she's ideologically very similar to him--which makes her somewhat less hot to me, TBH.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by Berzerker
No Kid, the people who dont believe in freedom came to that conclusion based on culture, religion, ideology, racism, or some other bugaboo. People aren't taught to be free... Aside from slavery, which the South did not need to survive, the USA was more libertarian than liberal or conservative for most of its early history...and we obviously survived.

That's because when you attempt to strip away culture, religion, and ideology you get chaos, gangs and organized crime, and then a dictatorship to "restore order." Kinda like what happens when the meta-stable communist version of libertarianism finally collapses.

Studies have shown that increases in crime are related to economic failures. Is there some reason that you think it's because people are less religious?

[Wezil]

Poverty causes crime = Big Lie of the left

Your nation must have been a crime ridden cesspool during the Great Depression. Was it?

[Kuciwalker]

Well, actually...

[Wezil]

People don't lose their moral code b/c they are poor. How insulting.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It is easier to have a moral code to live by when you are getting enough to eat .

[Kuciwalker]

The Great Depression allowed HITLER to come to power!

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It is easier to have a moral code to live by when you are getting enough to eat .

I guess it bears repeating: People don't lose their moral code b/c they are poor.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Wezil
I guess it bears repeating: People don't lose their moral code b/c they are poor.

And if you don't think people are more inclined to steal food to feed their families or engage in other criminal endevors to take care of their families, then you are very naive.

[Wezil]

Show me the numbers. The Great Depression should clearly be the period of highest crime in the US. Was it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Wezil
Show me the numbers. The Great Depression should clearly be the period of highest crime in the US. Was it?

Only if you think poverty is the only impetus for crime, which I'm not sure anyone actually believes.