Is it homophobic to not like 'camp'?

[Cort Haus]

Also : Do camp media stars that make a living out of the camp style help to break down barriers, or do they reinforce stereotypes?

Are camp TV personalities like black-and-white minstrels?

Are there enough gay characters on TV where their sexuality is not worn on their sleeve?

Are there gay men who are not keen on the camp style?

Thoughts and opinions on these questions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[LordShiva]

WTF is camp?

[Pekka]

I don't follow that logic.... to me, sexuality does not matter. I honestly do not care if some person on TV likes boys or girls. To me it's not an issue of "gay behavior", if there's an issue, it's behavior. If someone is a huge flamer, I might find it funny. Don't mind me, I'm not coming to up to your face about it. It's none of my business, but I do find it funny. That's it. It's not "gay behavior", it's behavior.

Just like I don't think women are the lesser sex, it's just not an issue. Or the colour of the skin. I treat you as an individual. That also means you can't pull any minority excuses with me, unless you're currently being haunted by some anti-gay folks, KKK or whatever.

These are merely features of an individual. To me, matters very little.

So no, I don't think it's a gay issue to begin with.

[Pekka]

This of course doesn't mean that I wouldn't enjoy racist jokes. I do. They're often hilarious.

[b etor]

Originally posted by Pekka
This of course doesn't mean that I wouldn't enjoy racist jokes. I do. They're often hilarious.

very hilarious.

[Pekka]

And one also has to try to be less biased about themselves, so I figure I'm not 100% free of racism. But I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

I think there are some issues lingering down under, where I would think "that's typical". I'm just being honest to myself and that's the most important thing. But oh well, I still go for the individual card. Plus, I know some homos IRL. One homo has been a good friend for years. Well he claims to be a bi-sexual but he prefers boys, so a homo to me . This isn't a proof that I am all so loving and accept gays, the thing is, I think it's just a feature. Who has the authority to say it's not just a feature? It's true, it's just how some people like the same sex, it's not a big deal.

And just like some homos play grab ass in clubs etc, which isn't a problem that happens all the time, it's not gay behavior. We guys grab women all the time as well. And women grab guys, my ass was totally molested by a drunk girl in a bar few months back. Not like little touch and feeler tester, I mean molested, like a good grip and a little shake. I felt dirty.

The point is, grabbing and touching is human behavior, not limited to gays, so no, it's not gay behavior.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Pekka
This of course doesn't mean that I wouldn't enjoy racist jokes. I do. They're often hilarious.

Have you heard the one about the Finn, the Swede, and the Dane?

[Pekka]

Cort Haus, there's so many, so go ahead and share?

[Asher]

Camp is a very good, very camp movie.

[Cort Haus]

Actually I don't know any Finn/Swede/Dane jokes myself Pekka, but I thought you might. Sorry.

Back on topic, you might have a point about camp not being a gay issue to begin with. Some upper-middle class people are camp too, without being gay. However, wherever it began, the behaviour-style has been adopted by some gays as part of their identity.

I'm also interested in the international element. I know from the shared cultural/language thing that camp in the UK and US works in a similar way, but are 'flamers', as you put it, in Finland similar?

Of our gay colleagues here, some appear camp, like Starchild, while others come across as not-camp, like Asher. Are you camp, Asher?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by LordShiva
WTF is camp?

Well, it's neither Counterglow, Eventis or MZO.

[Pekka]

I think our gays are not different from your gays culturally. This would be all within the western culture, our cultures are very similar to begin with so I don't they they woudl have differencies.

And this is not to say.... for example this one gay guy who came out of the closet in HS, he was a bit feminine, let's put it that way, even before coming out. OK. No problemo.

But then, few years later, he became a kind of guy who wants to look like ultra gay boy bands would look, and started acting like a total flamer. I found it irritating. Not because he was gay and out as can be, but because his behavior was irritating to me. I guess he would fall into some subcategory of gay types, following it religiously, and I just found it quite.... irritating. You know, limp wrist, and limp everything and talking like a teenager, "ohmyGOood he is soooo cute". Just ****ing irritating.

[Barnabas]

What is camp?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Barnabas
What is camp?

See South Park : Mr Slave, Big Gay Al, The Metrosexual episode.

[Barnabas]

Is it like liking Liza Minelli and gay stuff of that kind?